Attention everyone,

As of right now the staff have decided to release some information regarding this subject for now. After much discussion we have decided the following:

1. The staff has determined that it is indeed unfair and undesirable behaviour to intentionally lag out another player. While we all understand that OL speed is completely dependent on one's connection this issue causes a potentially unequal issue to become more unequal. We therefore are stepping in to level the playing field a bit more.

2. As of right now we are collecting the names of every player who are reported to have dropped more than 2-3 items in OL. Any player wishing to report such behaviour should send in a ticket with as many details as possible to the Multi/Cheat Department. Remember simply saying a player engages in such activity does not help without any details. We are concerned with in NEW offenses that happen after this warning.

3. We are still discussing punishment and this post functions as a warning for all players to not engage in this activity anymore. The staff does not find this action acceptable whatsoever.

Edited on 26-09-2009 21:22

*claps*

Nicely done.

Great stuff mod team!

I'm concerned spindoc, you're only allowed to drop 2-3 items? That would hardly constitute a proper bait trap.

Edit - Okay spindoc.

Edited on 26-09-2009 20:55

i dropped about 200 things earlier when cradle gave me a hug,does that count?

SirTheta: While your concern is understand, we feel a limit is best for now to at least level out the playing field a bit more. When an ultimate fix is determined, we'll go from there.

Like I said in the other thread, there may be a css workaround to stop it affecting you for the time being.

Cool Great stuff

Edited on 26-09-2009 22:02

Does this mean that any player who doesn't pick up death drops right away will also be punished? If you kill someone and they drop 100+ different items, and then stay and kill others before picking everything up and leaving the OL, you will be punished? Or do you really have to stay there and click to pick up stuff endangering your own life?

Intentionally dropping id say esnow..
Or however that word above is spelt

I could argue that any low level that goes to OL is intentionally trying to die with all their items.

XD esnow that was giving away a heap of junk taking up space in the one puny house i have

Well, it took me a good 10-15 seconds to pick everything up. That's 5-7 hits if someone else was there. Would I have been punished for leaving it on the ground and continuing to kill people as they passed through OL 35?

Yay for a witch hunt.

So what happens when you endorse harassment indirectly? If I drop 50 items in the OL and the PKer only picks up 10, does this mean I get to report them for abusing a bug?

There will be ways to check who dropped the items.

it takes what 2-3 seconds to pick up hundreds of thusands of items? 10-15 seconds? you must of been picking through it mightly slow.

Esnow, no i think if its you actually drop them as in click drop items..
Leaving them rhere would be another thing, as people suicide against people alot.. and sometimes people would walk off without noticing the other player did.. therefore leaving a drop on the ground..

Edited on 26-09-2009 21:02

Esnow is just arguing for the sake of arguing. This is obviously to anyone not married to one of the players who was doing it. About intentionally clicking drop items to drop one of each item. Nothing about not picking up death drops. Is mentioned anywhere. Some people just argue for the sake of arguing. Like to point esnow to this part of the rules that people seem to forget a lot.

"Also, please remember the spirit of the rules is far more important than the literal wording as players who actively seek for loopholes to engage in questionable acts will be punished."

That went against the spirit of rules, as the mods stated. So what can you possibly have to say to state it was not intentionally dropped items.

Now thanks mods.A simple fix until something better is found.

Edited on 26-09-2009 21:03

I think the point is you aren't dropping them to make people lag so you can kill them. The best way to actually fix the problem is to test it out and work out a number of items that causes an issue, then limit the number shown at once to slightly less than that amount. Drop what you want or kill someone with loads or items, either way no lag will be caused as a result of too many items getting processed at once

2009-09-26 21:01 Senior Moderator

Since this has only officially been declared an abuse in the last 5 minutes, I'm not sure you can expect retroactive punishments for something that is not actually against the rules.

We will look forward to and appreciate your documentation of future events since it will help us start a list of players on warning.

Simply saying a player does it, is less useful than actually giving us details. We are particularly interested in NEW offenses that occur after the warning has been publically delivered.

Freshly delivered from a moderator.

I am not arguing, I am just trying to get clarification. Does the PKer get punished if he leaves death drops on the ground and they happen to lag people for some reason?

Viperslfc - I share the same concern as esnow. I'm also single

it takes what 2-3 seconds to pick up hundreds of thusands of items? 10-15 seconds? you must of been picking through it mightly slow.

Depends on your connection. Also, we're talking about 100 different items here, not the necessarily the same.

See, for once I agree with esnow.

Where is the line drawn in what can remain and what can't in terms of abuse being cried about the bug? Not everyone wants to pick up every single piece of a death drop, burnts, glass, etc. Some of it remains on the ground, does this mean I can go back and check if the PKer got all my stuff and if they didn't file a report?

Honestly. Clarification is necessary.

I think an option to quickly disable the drop box would be an easy fix to all this mess.

If your crossing OLs just to move across you could turn it off and not experience any lag from items on the ground. Obviously if your there to PK, then your your call.

Anyway, I support this. Something needed done.

Senior mod has pretty much confirmed that those who may have already done it wont be punished.

That doesn't fix the issue Rictor

Edit -
Overall, I applaud the Mods for coming forward though

Edited on 26-09-2009 21:17

couldnt people just disable images as a quick fix to this or does that not work for dropped items in the OL's?

have to say grats to mods for discussing and posting this in good time though.

It does work wullie, but the lag still stays just not as bad.. ive tried.

While I agree some response had to be made to this 'bug' I also think some more clarification needs to be made. While it seems logical that this statement does not include death drops, it's reasonable to ask for that clarification and to ask what happens if the PK'er leaves some of those items. Do they now have to stop and clean up the mess they made before moving on to PK someone else?

I want to agree with poj on this matter after reading that.

Conspiracy Theory ftw?

Looks puzzled. I put a comment and it got deleted. Is it because I named a player who may have been guilty of this offence?

Ihityoudie reply to you.
"I want to agree with poj on this matter after reading that.
Edit spelling mistake

Edited on 26-09-2009 21:21

Long time since I felt the need to share a ticket:

2009-09-26 21:16 Jop
I stated a fact, you cannot consider that abuse.

If you want to quote rules:

Section 4 - Game bugs

1. In the event that you find a fault with the game, report it to staff immediately.
2. If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen.

You have failed to uphold this rule!

2009-09-26 21:13 Senior Moderator
That reply was not adding anything but a possible release of your anger. If you have nothing useful to contribute beyond being abusive to staff, please take a moment to reread Rules section 7.

2009-09-26 21:10 Jop
So Lestro, PvP and GM have got away with it, jsut as expected.

Thanks for confirming your corruptness and the immunity from the rules thatyour clan has.

2009-09-26 21:08 Senior Moderator
NOONE is getting punished until we have proof they continued beyond the warning. I am not disagreeing that pvp and lestro HAVE done this as has the player formerly known as Gods_Messenger. And probably several others. that is not under debate.

If they continue to do so NOW that they have been warned, we will welcome any evidence that you can submit.

Wow, viper your correct.. it was deleted as ive read your post..

Sirtheta - Could be fast who knows?

Something needed to be done, and it was. So good job.

However a problem arises, and I will use an example to show it.

*Offender A* has *Accomplice A* carry a bunch of different items into OLs.
*Offender A* kills *Accomplice A* and does not pick up any of the items.
*Offender A* both stay in OLs and use the items to create lag for others, and kill them.

No player has dropped any items, and the offender can argue that they did not want to pick up the dropped items because they felt the items were useless. Same problem exists, no one to blame.

Rictor
[~X~]
26-09-2009 21:10



I think an option to quickly disable the drop box would be an easy fix to all this mess.

If your crossing OLs just to move across you could turn it off and not experience any lag from items on the ground. Obviously if your there to PK, then your your call.


thank you Rictor, thats the idea i had in forums

Items are sitting there for 5 miutes disapear?

Wow.

The mods now say that, "Okay, you're right, this is a bug. Anyone abusing it from this point forward will face disciplinary action."

How is that not good enough for you? Are you on such a crusade of vengeance that you just want to see people burned at the stake, fairness be damned?

They did something that was not against the rules. It is NOW against the rules, and if they do it AGAIN they will be punished. Why is that not good enough?

Exactly Calydor. This is how things get added to the Rules.

It was against the rules before. It was abusing a bug, as has now been confirmed.

It's a bug?

spindoc i have a question about this. So this is unfair behavior and not bug abuse? Would this also cover other instances of unfair behavior like say (scamming)? I am wondering if this statement of your is amending the official rules which has no real ruling on said "unfair behaviors"?

Edited on 26-09-2009 21:26

Well the ability to intentionally cause players to lag wasn't an intended aspect of the gmae, so tehcnically yes.

Thank you very much community, staff, mods, senior mods and M2H.

Parker brings up a good point, would that be considered the same as dropping items to create lag? if they have a friend or clan mate run out there with a bunch of burnts or glass and kill them do they get to circumvent the newly stated rule?

"Well the ability to intentionally cause players to lag wasn't an intended aspect of the gmae, so tehcnically yes."

What next? Can I report people for being online as too many people online causes a load on the server that causes me and everyone else to lag?

Good work mods.

Pipster: I don't really want to go into the particulars of any differences of the 2 issues. I know that I am planning a post to delve into the subject of scams a bit more and hopefully show some distinction, that may or may not exist, between these 2 issues. As for when a post will be made, ideally it will up after the new island launches.

I personally do not want to see anyone banned. At the same time I do not want to see anyone break the rules and get away with it becouse their clannie is a mod/senior mod.

The mods should have jailed offenders for a period of time considering the income they have made from the drops using this exploit.

But it is now glaringly obvious that its one rule for one, onle rule for chums of the multi/cheat mods.

Okay HOTS, not how I see it but

mindcrime93 - There aren't enough types of burnts in-game to cause lag, unless maybe you were on dial-up, in which case you're dead with or without.

Edited on 26-09-2009 21:29

good point Theta didnt think about it thanks

Items sitting there should disapear after 5 minutes?

Thanks for finally putting an end to this Mods.

I do however think that this is a bug, and therefore bug abuse, so there are rules to say there should be retrospective punishment here. The fact it has now been declared a bug proves it was a bug all along.

About the idea of one person killing his accomplice to leave items there..the punishment laid out for this exploitation will be by intent of the rules. There is judging by the letter of the law..or what this situation seems to be avoiding..and judging by the intent of the law. The intent is that players shouldn't intentionally lag up other players, therefore the mod team I would hope would punish players who kill others to lag up the OLs just as they would those who drop stuff themselves.

Also about those that have done this in the past. That is the past..it wasn't in the rules, there were no mod rulings on it yet as it was still under consideration and discussion. The moderation is in the right in only warning and not punishing as they have stated that FURTHER abuse will not be tolerated.

"We are still discussing punishment and this post functions as a warning for all players to not engage in this activity anymore. The staff does not find this action acceptable whatsoever."

Looks like they are still talking it over as far as punishment goes.

As for the clannie death thing, I think they need to change it somehow to if items are left on the ground (in OLs only) for more than 5 minutes they vanish.

Takes a few seconds to pick up any death, 5 minutes is more than enough time.

Exactly what i said a few posts above i totally agree with rictor

2009-09-26 21:29 Senior Moderator
You were informed that there will be no punishment retroactive for something that was not labeled illegal until now.

Your reply 'Thanks for confirming your corruptness and the immunity from the rules thatyour clan has' - certainly sounds abusive to me. anything further along these lines will be treated as staff abuse.

2009-09-26 21:16 Jop
I stated a fact, you cannot consider that abuse.

If you want to quote rules:

Section 4 - Game bugs

1. In the event that you find a fault with the game, report it to staff immediately.
2. If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen.

You have failed to uphold this rule!
2009-09-26 21:13 Senior Moderator
That reply was not adding anything but a possible release of your anger. If you have nothing useful to contribute beyond being abusive to staff, please take a moment to reread Rules section 7.

2009-09-26 21:10 Jop
So Lestro, PvP and GM have got away with it, jsut as expected.

Thanks for confirming your corruptness and the immunity from the rules thatyour clan has.

2009-09-26 21:08 Senior Moderator
NOONE is getting punished until we have proof they continued beyond the warning. I am not disagreeing that pvp and lestro HAVE done this as has the player formerly known as Gods_Messenger. And probably several others. that is not under debate.

If they continue to do so NOW that they have been warned, we will welcome any evidence that you can submit.

5 minutes might be too long. Someone new can come along, read the log at the OL spot and report the PKer for leaving items on the ground. There's no clarification on what is acceptable reporting and what isn't honestly.

Also, any player found to be bringing more than 10 items into the OL should be punished since the PKer does lag when a huge drop hits the floor. If lagging others intentionally is bad, that is...

Common now people...do we really have to nitpick everything?

We asked the mods to do something about a bug, they did.

BE HAPPY and just stop already.

*shakes head and the low some people sink to to cause problems*

I agree Rictor

At the end of the day we are at their mercy. They are on it. Let them do their jobs.

Again Thanks to everyone

What's the point in having a rules if they aren't enforced? What's happening here is the exact opposite of what it says in the rules!

1 In the event that you find a fault with the game, report it to staff immediately.

2. If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen.

How is this not a direct violation of 2? Give us our items back and stick them all in jail for a week or ban them from killing in the OL for a while or something. Whoever made the decision to exploit a bug and they should have to deal with the consequences.

Lets go up to section 3. Anyone care to write a bot to feed us while fighting and enter the botcheck? Can't be punished until it's officially decided that it's against the rules (even though it states clearly that it is) and can't be punished until after that announcement.

And stop deleting forum posts when a player bumps, I don't see an announcement in the forums saying it's not allowed so you aren't allowed to punish it.

there is only 1 thing im thinking...

if only 3 items are allowed to be dropped how could people drop-trade in the ols

i have actually had a clannie or two drop trading in the ols...

Hazgod not every possible situation where it is possible to exploit is laid out clearly in the rules. We have to go by the intent of the rules. Sometimes it takes a little while to work out if it really is an exploit or not. But the moderation team did warn the players when they reached a decision and said that further exploitation through these techniques would be punishable.

And bumping is in the rules. There wasn't a rule that said "Any player that causes lag on purpose in the OLs is subject to jailtime/mutes and possible ban" or something like that. That's why we had to have whole discussions on it to determine if it was against the intent of the rules or not.

The mod team has reached a decision, their word is final. Arguing is pointless and just causes tension. You know what? It's a game..just play the game.

Edited on 26-09-2009 22:00

That's a load of crap. I have 20ms ping and it lagged me. Must have been lagging them as well. I don't believe that they didn't notice all the lag it was causing. Otherwise why drop so many useless items like burnts that people aren't going to stop to look at

Agree with Hazgod here fully. It is in the rules, as he clearly pointed out with a direct quote from them. If every bug needs to be "warned against" in the forum before bans/jails/freezes can be given out then that entire section of the rules makes no sense and is totally useless.

It WAS in the rules..but not clearly defined. It had yet to be determined that it was abuse.

OK then, can people send me passwords please. I know hacking is against the rules but it can't be hacking if you willingly tell me your password. Here is another example of a grey area in the rules. Unfortunately, you are now allowed to exploit these grey areas until it's determined to be against the rules specifically, and then can only be punished AFTER it has been announced. Get those passwords in quickly people!

Hazgod, having multiple account is against the rules. Your analogy fails.

Leaving death drops on the floor instead of picking them up isn't the rules.

Lol players whine that mods are not listening to them and that they don't do much. However when mods do something to help benefit the game they are roundly criticized for their efforts by mostly the same people who criticized them in the first place for doing nothing. Makes you think if they will ever be happy, anyway you should be happy that they are making a genuine effort to do something to help the game.

Hazgod that's somewhat ridiculous. Defined as sharing accounts which you aren't supposed to do...

Look, as I have said: Mods have ruled. Moderation's word is final. Move on.

@esnow Intentionally abusing a game bug is though.

Edited on 26-09-2009 22:22

Yes, I know my example was over the top but my point still stands. There are "catch all" rules for exactly these situations. Bug exploiting and the spirit of the rules. Why should some players be allowed to make quick gains by exploiting something and not be punished for it?

just a quick question because i don't fully understand this bug.

why does the dropped items cause really bad lag for those moving and healing, but it doesn't lag the PK's attacking?


Nate

There not moving.. and they have been sitting there and all the pictures have loaded nate.

It does cause them some lag, but they have already loaded up all the images so all their screen has to do is load the player's list. Whereas the players running through have to load tons of images.

I'm smart enough to avoid the OL entirely since it doesn't interest me in the slightest but there's at least one thing is the mod post that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, specifically the bit where it at least strongly implies that dropping more than 3 items is suspicious.

I've picked up plenty of random drops at, say, Valera & scoop whatever I can and then drop the debris; i.e. five different kinds of burnts, as a little treat I typically drop all beers, occasionally a stray bronze tool that isn't worth walking up to Eully to sell by itself, etc. Point being, it doesn't seem all that uncommon to legitimately have more than three different item types to drop after picking up a death drop.

As someone mentioned up the thread a bit (sorry, don't recall who said it off hand), there's probably not enough different types of burnt fish to drop to trigger lag so wouldn't it make more sense to have this unofficial limit be however high that number is (seems the problem is being triggered at/around 8-10 best I can figure based on the various gripe threads).

Wouldn't it make more sense to set this arbitrary limit on the high end instead of the low end, in order to avoid somehow trying to make Syrnian criminals out of people who could very easily being doing something perfectly legit like dropping the random debris from a fully recovered death drop?

No skin off my nose either way, it just didn't seem to make a lot of sense from a numbers standpoint.

There not moving.. and they have been sitting there and all the pictures have loaded nate.

It does cause them some lag, but they have already loaded up all the images so all their screen has to do is load the player's list. Whereas the players running through have to load tons of images.

That's not what causes the lag, what are you talking about

Edit -

MiddleGA - I had no lag from 30+ items, so I don't see why the limit couldn't be even higher.

Edited on 26-09-2009 22:39

What clan were Okietrader and trader99 in?

I ask ofcourse seeing as they have been frozen as multies...

Manc i believe brogs.

hmm ok thanks both

tho the PK'ers have to be moving occassionaly i suppose, otherwise the player list wouldnt update for them either.


Nice quick response from the mods on the issue tho

I had no lag with 30+ items MiddleGA, so there's no reason the limit couldn't be set yet higher.

They dont nate, they sit and when they see a name.. they WILL get a chance to get 1-3 hits without doubt... they can hit 50-60s.. which is more then enough :o

A perfect solution to this would be to not let anyone drop anything from there inventory in the OL accept when they get attacked and die.

The limit I proposed would be a limit in the number of items displayed at once rather than the number of items you're actually allowed to drop.

I'll give a proper example that everyone can follow.

Limit of 2 items shown (so I don't have to write as much )

Say I drop 1 of each bronze armour.

Anyone coming through will see bronze helm and shield.

Someone picks up the helm. The item list now shows bronze shield and plate.

Someone picks up the plate. Item list now shows bronze shield and axe.

All items are at the location, but only a certain number get shown at once. Also note that the same items get shown for all players, so you don't see burnts while I run past and see platina ore etc.

This allows players to set traps with whatever items they want without causing lag to everyone else.


Preventing people from dropping anything completely is not an option because there are good reasons to drop stuff in the OL, like miners dropping ores any PKers setting traps

Edited on 26-09-2009 22:47

no, they would definitely have to move some atleast ;) thats just how the OL works as standard. They couldnt just camp there for say half hour at a time waiting for names.

a few minutes at a time would be ok. But even still names dont show as quickly when your stood still. obviously they still show quicker than it takes that kind of lag to pass tho.


Edit for Hazgod below: You've obviously not done enough mining out there

Edited on 26-09-2009 22:49

It updates pretty fast when you're sitting still otherwise miners would be screwed

Nate they can move.. but it only takes maybe 10 seconds for the lag to stop when they move back.. so it doesnt affect them at all..

What happens if you continuously click your own name in the menu? Does that update the list? It's always either been too crowded or not crowded enough for me to check.

i wonder tazz good point.. :o

"Preventing people from dropping anything completely is not an option because there are good reasons to drop stuff in the OL, like miners dropping ores any PKers setting traps"

hazgod thats not a valid reason

It constantly refreshes in the OL

Not constantly hazgod, when i'm doing a skill out there, people have got 2 hits on me before they've appeared in the list

Miners dropping ores would be the #1 main reason not to completely remove the drop option in the OL, actually.

""Preventing people from dropping anything completely is not an option because there are good reasons to drop stuff in the OL, like miners dropping ores any PKers setting traps"

hazgod thats not a valid reason "

Eh? Why not? That's got to be the #1 reason to do so..

platina spot in ol might not be needed anymore with this new island coming

"Eh? Why not? That's got to be the #1 reason to do so.."

Because you can easily run to port senyn and then go to eully to trade the ore and if you can't you shouldn't be there in the first place and pker's don't need to set traps they can walk around and search for players.

Edited on 26-09-2009 23:09

Even if there is a Platina Mine on the new island, the fact that there are still Platina Mines in the OL means that there will be miners mining there.

"Because you can easily run to port senyn and then go to eully to trade the ore and if you can't you shouldn't be there in the first place and pker's don't need to set traps they can walk around and search for players."

For every single ore? What a hassle & waste of time. Everyone has the right to go into the OL, don't give me that Brain Storm. & so now we'll take away from PK'ers? How would you react if people above level 40 Woodcutting weren't allowed to cut at Isri or Bonewood anymore?

Edited on 26-09-2009 23:11

That's weird, mine was refreshing every second at least

Maybe it refreshes quicker if you have a lower ping? As many times i've been fighting, and losing HP without even seeing anyone, so i assume they have a lower ping. But back to the bug, Players with video evidence proving they are purposley lagging people should be punished, or whatever happens to bug abusers.

If you complain they just didnt want the drop, then why are they Pk'ing? It's the only reason i can see for Pk'ing, the items.

Edited on 26-09-2009 23:21

"For every single ore? What a hassle & waste of time. Everyone has the right to go into the OL, don't give me that brain storm. & so now we'll take away from PK'ers? How would you react if people above level 40 Woodcutting weren't allowed to cut at Isri or Bonewood anymore?"

when a player needs to run away they should be able to run to port senyn and drop it in a house or trade it and if you aren't able to run away to port senyn from OL 78 or 79 then you shouldn't be in the OL in the first place, even if you have 100 ore on you.

Thats not taking away from pker's, its making the OL a whole lot more fun

I am getting the picture that you just like to argue SirTheta.

Edited on 26-09-2009 23:22

Warrior on Wheels - As an experienced OL miner, it is far more dangerous to run from the mining spot to Ogre or Eully to trade than to just drop it on the ground for your guard to pick up.

I'd rather not see that option disabled because it'd be far more time consuming and more risky than it already is to mine out there.

when a player needs to run away they should be able to run to port senyn and drop it in a house or trade it and if you aren't able to run away to port senyn from OL 78 or 79 then you shouldn't be in the OL in the first place, even if you have 100 ore on you.

That's just ridiculous, why shouldn't I be able to just drop the ore off to my big, bad, high CL protector, rather than wasting all that time running back to Senyn and wasting 50 gold to get back? Why should it be even more risky then it already is?

"Thats not taking away from pker's, its making the OL a whole lot more fun"

It's taking away from the PK'ers, Miners and probably other groups, making the OL less fun.

"I am getting the picture that you just like to argue SirTheta."

Perhaps.

Edited on 26-09-2009 23:28

If something as stupid as no drops in the OL gets passed, then there should be no drop trades anywhere, cause next ppl in arch 4 will complain of drops lagging while fighting the dinnos

So you either have to carry a boat with you or pay 50gp to get back every time PLUS the travel time? No. That makes no sense. When I go to mine there I go with a set of armour, a weapon and a pickaxe. I'm not going to carry around a 3k boat and risk losing that. Simple fix, limit the number of items displayed at once to a number that doesn't cause lag. All other arguments are no longer relevant.

Drop 1 of every item in the game? Only x get shown.

Don't want to pick up the items after you kill someone? Fine, only x get shown.

Have someone come into the OL to suicide and drop loads of items? Waste of their time because only x get shown.

Anything else you can think of that can be done to cause other players to lag by having too many items in on the ground? No, because all are solved by only showing a certain number of items! Just want to run through? Don't get greedy and stop to pick up items

"If you complain they just didnt want the drop, then why are they Pk'ing? It's the only reason i can see for Pk'ing, the items."

Player Killing for many, myself included, is all about the Kill. Getting the better of another player out there is the fun of PK'ing IMO. Any drops which occur afterwards are simply a bonus, and i know that there are several who are quite happy to return drops, or part of. Viper is one that springs to mind.

Ive let low players come back out to collect thier gear still laying where it fell from them, and im sure many others have also. hardly worth a punishment...


Hazgod, it will refresh quite quickly for a few minutes, but if you stay still long enough it will stop refreshing completely ;) its still likely you will get hit before seeing a name appear if their ping is low, even if yours is also.

Well, in that case to avoid punishment, pick them up and Drop the items in OCE1.

wont that cause lag coming in and out of cave then? and thats a bad thing too

Probably cause lag going into OCE1, which would be quite bad

Koolkitty "If something as stupid as no drops in the OL gets passed, then there should be no drop trades anywhere, cause next ppl in arch 4 will complain of drops lagging while fighting the dinnos"

It totally lags my combo chest guessing too!

Yeah, But it's lag loading OCE1 instead of Lag loading OL35 where you can be attacked. I dunno, maybe, But the way it is, it seems like all the big drops of 1 Item are only happening at OL35, There are 99 numbers to kill someone at, so it cant be from a death.. But i suppose it's argueable, so i guess there is no easy fix.

"only showing 3 items" Would kinda suck if you got a big drop, you'd be forever clicking, not knowing when it was going to end, Not a problem for high level pk'ers,as they dont need to worry about getting 2-hit. I suppose it would kind of help prevent people from stealing part of your drop.. But still, I like the ols as it is, Would love it even more if CL50+ People stayed out of there.

Edited on 27-09-2009 00:07

A thought out response from the mods. Does everything asked by the community.

Getting items back was never going to happen as lag related deaths never do. Maybe the copy and paste wasn't working for part 3 of the rules pasted above:
"3. Any player deaths caused as a result of "lag" shall not be compensated. This is because there are many possible reasons for this, both on the player's side and on Syrnia's side"

Punishments if they happen are between the mods and the offenders. If I was going to be punished with something I wouldn't like it to be pasted all over the place. So people may be punished though you will not know it.

Hazgod's two items was an example. Would probably be greater than 10 items, if implemented.

Anibas, that's a pretty weak arguement as it is known why people are lagging out there. Player controlled lag does not in my mind count as normal game lag.

It's the rules not an argument. You don't get to pick and choose which ones you get to apply to yourself when it suits you.

Well in that case why are the suspected bug abusers not punished yet?

"3. We are still discussing punishment and this post functions as a warning for all players to not engage in this activity anymore. The staff does not find this action acceptable whatsoever."

Is it international get to point 3 and stop reading day?

Since this has only officially been declared an abuse in the last 5 minutes, I'm not sure you can expect retroactive punishments for something that is not actually against the rules.

We will look forward to and appreciate your documentation of future events since it will help us start a list of players on warning.

Did you not read that?

I did. Try reading it again and tell me if he sounds sure about it yet.

Thank You, Mods
It's difficult enough for some of us to get through OLs, without the added hazards of deliberate traps & pitfalls ;)
This made my Syrnian day

Disallow manual drops in the OL. All drops via kills go immediately into your inventory. Simple...

Also, thank you for taking action. I for one DO wish to see people that have been breaking rules be punished.

Edited on 27-09-2009 00:58

There are good reasons for manual drops. That is 100% not a good solution

Disallow manual drops in the OL.
Been bandied about quite a bit, bad solution.

All drops via kills go immediately into your inventory. Simple...
What, and basically make it a freebie for any vulture who comes by and manages to get in the last hit? Also, why make it that easy for PK'ers anyway?

Currently the only reason stated for manual drops is for the miners. That is due to a tactic they are using to mine, and get their ores off "safely". IF they are not allowed to drop, then they have to find a new tactic...simple.

People have abused a flaw in the game, and that flaw needs to be closed.

Yes by limiting the number of items shown to a number that doesn't cause lag. What don't you understand about that? Everyone gets the best solution. PKers can drop traps, miners can drop ores, rest of us don't lag. No one has given any reason against it yet

to everyone saying that they were abusing a bug just where does it say it was a bug?

1. The staff has determined that it is indeed unfair and undesirable behaviour to intentionally lag out another player. While we all understand that OL speed is completely dependent on one's connection this issue causes a potentially unequal issue to become more unequal. We therefore are stepping in to level the playing field a bit more.

it says its unfair and undesirable behaviour but it does NOT say its a bug

Unless it is an intended part of the game coding then it is a bug. This is clearly not intended.

It is a bug. There is a problem with the system that can be exploited. The intended functionality of dropping items in the OL is clearly not to get unfair kills by causing other players to lag.

The fact is some have misused something they have found out about to gain an advantage.

It needs to be punished properly to prevent players looking for loopholes like this and getting quick gains from it. At the very least they should have all the items they got from kills using this method removed. Personally what I lost was a bit annoying but nothing major. I'm sure at least 1 person is going to have lost a lot of stuff. It's already enough of a risk to cross the OL for low level players as it is without people fixing it so they are guaranteed to get a few hits in

Edit: What was edited? Looks exactly the same

Edited on 27-09-2009 12:34

dix...

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways.

How many of all complainers actually have been in the OL when there were alot of stuff laying on the floor.
I went to check it out myself having someone else dropped 100 stuff there.
I walked there and experienced NO lag at all.

This is an issue that has to do with your PC speed and internet connection. So basicly you are now stating that having a good pc with a good connection is an unfair advantage over others who don't. If you put it like that just erase the OL completely as it will ALWAYS be unfair in that case.

Also I would like to point out that the people who used this didn't even intend to ''abuse'' a ''bug''. They took advantage of the greed of people who got killed while they wanted to pick some stuff up in the OL. Now the greedy people get rewarded for their stupidness by this new rule.

Also for those who say ''making dropping in the OL impossible''. Get your mining to lvl 70 and mine some platina there please. Then you know why there is a drop box in the OL.

Jeffrey, i have a ping of 20ms.. my broadband speed is 56 mb.. my comp is brand new and i am using firefox/with add ons.

I experienced major lag. With and without the images turned on/off chat disabled etc.

My ping is also ~20ms

Do you think it was intended to let players lag by dropping stuff? Even for the miners it basicly is bug abuse. It is also strange to allow the bugabuse defensively, but to punish players who use it for the offensive. It is both the same basicly. The community seems biased about this...

Miners don't drop stuff to make people lag, they drop the ores so their high level friends can hold on to it as they are less likely to die. Also, dropping picks for other miners or sharing food if a lot is being used. All good reasons do drop stuff. If the miners drop 1 of every item then that also wouldn't be allowed

Players have been doing this since I started playing this game , I think it was Bull who did it quite a lot, he was never punished for it , nor were the other players who used to do this , why should this change for players now?

it would make life for a pker very hard

Am I the only one who thinks this should be fixed with some code rather than adding vague and unenforceable ruling?

Edited on 27-09-2009 16:22

Wyks, I believe that coding is definitely the way to fix this for good and I think Hazgod has provided at least a temporary idea that would work.

However, in my opinion it would make a mockery of even having bug abuse rules if the offenders are not punished. We may as well delete section 4 altogether in that eventuality.

With Hazgod's solution it means death drop thieves could make stealing the best part of the death drop easier.

So if there are 10 types of burnts on the floor, and someone suicides on me, I wont be able to see the drop, wont know anyone has died, and miss out on a potential great drop? That would suck.

It wouldnt have to resort to things like this if players would just play the game by the rules.. but then again even if you break a rule now adays depending on who you are depends on the punishment

With Hazgod's solution it means death drop thieves could make stealing the best part of the death drop easier.

What the.. are you serious.. go read Hazgod's post again.

So if there are 10 types of burnts on the floor, and someone suicides on me, I wont be able to see the drop, wont know anyone has died, and miss out on a potential great drop? That would suck.

You can't see Burnts?

Jeffreyj - My pins is like 350ms or so. Doesn't matter, your point is invalid because you obviously can't think. I can walk through the OL fine normally, yet when I happen upon hundreds of items sitting on the ground, I lag? O, nope, it's not because of the items, it's because of your ping! Seriously?

My ping is 137ms, the two times I went through the pile of items, one time I was down to 1 hp, the other time I was undetected completely. The PKer is lagged as well it seems, and names don't appear instantly, so there is some luck involved.

SirTheta, if the PKer is clicking on the top item instead of the second item , if someone comes along and starts clicking the 2nd item , they will get drops the PKer doesn't even know were there.

Well, you have to ask yourself what is worse in this situation. Would you rather see a slightly changed drop box or the OLs destroyed beyond use?

Also, just click the last item showing if that's your worry.

And how is that any different from picking up items in the OL normally?

You can't see Burnts?

So what if a Player carrying a few hundered thousand burnts dies there, They'll be worth something, But if i cant see them, then we miss out on a good drop again..

re: "Would you rather see a slightly changed drop box or the OLs destroyed beyond use"

Probably wouldn't like my answer to that one.

Then you pick up a few burnts and see if anything is beyond them, how hard is it?

Simple, Let them only drop a maximum of 5 items, this could include food/pick/ore/gems for the miners.. would stop lag..

however of you kill someone everything shows, if you leave it on the ground for more then 5 minutes it disapears.

how about we stop arguing this because the mods have made their decision and its not worth arguing anymore.

I agree with wyks 100% get m2h in to change the code so death drops go to a players inventory and you cant drop in the Ol Simple!

The fact that Become thinks disabling drops is a good idea shows what a phenomenally bad idea it is.

Move to ogre cave enterance do your dropping there!

Having the drops go into the killer's inventory and disabling drops isn't actually a bad idea. The only people who would complain about it are miners who go out there for rare ores, but they are usually protected by fighters anyway, and if they're really worried they can go back and house the ores every few.

The fact that Become thinks disabling drops is a good idea shows what a phenomenally bad idea it is.

Exactly

Having the drops go into the killer's inventory and disabling drops isn't actually a bad idea. The only people who would complain about it are miners who go out there for rare ores, but they are usually protected by fighters anyway, and if they're really worried they can go back and house the ores every few.

I thought we already went over this. There's a much better solution out there then basically handing death drops to a PK'er (or vulture) and penalizing miners.

Edited on 27-09-2009 21:07

Maybe there is, but I'm not reading through 6 pages to find it and comment on it.

"2. If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen."

edit: On the grounds that it would have caused me to be jailed. :-/

Edited on 27-09-2009 21:39

(Quoted Moderator text used to be here before they removed it because it made them look bad.)


So what if those doing it are Moderators themselves? Let's not pretend for a moment that that isn't a real possibility. Given the very understated Moderator reaction, it seems highly likely that this is the case.


In response to Moderators edit:

So you say Moderator, but while you remain anonymous I don't believe a word of it. After all, you could have been doing it yourself and we wouldn't know.

Please do not edit my posts unless they are breaking the rules. If you have something to say show some integrity and use your own name. That way we'd be more likely to believe you.


Edited on 27-09-2009 22:18

Edited on 27-09-2009 22:28

so...is the tune changing now?

spindoc
[Zen]
26-09-2009 20:46



Attention everyone,

As of right now the staff have decided to release some information regarding this subject for now. After much discussion we have decided the following:

1. The staff has determined that it is indeed unfair and undesirable behaviour to intentionally lag out another player. While we all understand that OL speed is completely dependent on one's connection this issue causes a potentially unequal issue to become more unequal. We therefore are stepping in to level the playing field a bit more.

original post stated point #1 that this was unfair advantage. I guess they have determined that the offending parties are too "elite" to be propery disposed.

sickens me to be honest.

"original post stated point #1 that this was unfair advantage. I guess they have determined that the offending parties are too "elite" to be propery disposed."

Stated it was "unfair" and "undesirable behavior". The way I read it, advantage isn't implied.

Jop: Mods won't change their mind. You would get better results if the community held embargo's on the "Clan" that were involved and even then all the clan leaders could do is kick the member out. So they are going to get away with it.

I don't beleive for a second that some of them were not aware of the lag it was causing. Please. Even after a few days of it being exploited and world chat talking about it. The players involved that have been named in previous posts are active posters in World Chat, so they knew. I was online alot when it was happening and I noticed those players were silent in world chat and silent on the forums while it was happening.
Where i come from they call that a guilty conscience.


And the game, OL's, shouldn't have to be changed to address the bug, lag, problem that was being capatilized on by a few members. If the MODS had done what they should have done in the first place and sent a clear message to those players, with a punishment, this "problem" would be a non-issue and a simple addition to the rules about lagging players could have been added.

Edited on 27-09-2009 22:01

Final comment:

You can't fix stupid...

Good luck.

"Moderator edit:
"So what if those doing it are Moderators themselves?" Incorrect."

Unless a mod has access to logs and have checked all the moderator's activity and seen if they dropped items in the OLs, then the above quote can not be 100% certain.
I'm not accusing the moderators of abusing the system, but neither am i saying they can say beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are innocent without supporting evidence.

EDIT: Are moderators not leaving a time stamp on their edits anymore, or are they merely forgetting? Many edits here seem to be missing timestamps, not sure about elsewhere.

Edited on 27-09-2009 22:19

Doritos is correct: i have watched certain Big players talking in World about how much stuff they just dropped & how they were waiting for people to come.. in fact, 2 in particular spent a lot of time one night in World 'asking' people to "come and get it".
The idea that this is unknown, or not deliberate, is more than a farce.. and this behaviour is reprehensible.
What spindoc posted seemed an attempt at parity for all players, and i am quite disappointed if his words have fallen on deaf ears.
Shame on you.

I highly doubt a mod would of done this and not been first to be punished. I haven't been posting much on this, as I know the mods are doing something, while, trying to get this island out at the same time. Why not just wait and see what happens, before calling for coding changes?

If the mods are looking for players perspectives about punishments, I say clean them out of all items, trace anything that they have traded since this started, then get rid of that stuff also. also jail them one day per person they killed.

My main concern now is that would the mods have behaved the same way if a less popular player was exploiting a bug (and let's face it, there is nothing else you can call this)? I am sure had I done this (having never been in a clan with a moderator) I would be feeling the wrath of a IP ban right about now.

This basically goes to show if you have friends at the top then you will never come to harm here, there is no other way to describe such a situation but corruption. The offending parties here may as well set up 100 different accounts now, as they are immune to punishment it seems.

Because a code change would take all of 10 seconds and make this impossible in the future

This basically goes to show if you have friends at the top then you will never come to harm here, there is no other way to describe such a situation but corruption. The offending parties here may as well set up 100 different accounts now, as they are immune to punishment it seems.

Obviously. That's why me and my multis have never been frozen. That's also why I can't leave Pond, because the minute I do, I'll be punished by the mods. That's what happened to all of Pond's ex-members. Too bad none of them is alive to tell you.

That was sarcastic. Just in case.

Because a code change would take all of 10 seconds and make this impossible in the future

Yeah, because this game has such a good reputation for quick code updates, right?

Meh, the mods are doing their jobs. Games staff are aware of the issue. It's up to them now. We can all play 'what if?' but let's get back to playing Syrnia instead of finger pointing.

Ani the game staff dont worry about Bugs they stop exploitation and shouldnt be able to take further action it should be up to Mh and NO-ONE ELSE

"Ani the game staff dont worry about Bugs they stop exploitation and shouldnt be able to take further action it should be up to Mh and NO-ONE ELSE"

Ever notice, when you submit a bug ticket, it usually just sits and sits? Suddenly, when m2h appears, a senior mod works like crazy on those bug tickets? I have a sneaking suspicion, that m2h is actually a senior mod as well. :o
I'm also wondering, if the mods might possibly actually be talking to him now and then, to know what kind of actions to take with certain aspects of a game.

Edited on 28-09-2009 00:07

M2H is well aware of the issue and is working hand in hand with the mod team and staff. As far as what powers mods have or should not have is none of our concern and is solely up to M2H.

Okay, I've been thinking about this a bit and here's my take on it:

What remains to be determined, in individual cases, is whether this was an intentional lag-trap, or rather, a more extensive version of the bait-trap (i.e. some people with a decent CL actually managed to pick all the items up from the ground, so the trap-layer simply extended the trap).

Also, if it is true (I believe Jeffreyj provided this example of himself, if not, sorry Jeffreyj), that some players experienced no lag with many items dropped, than how are we to assume that the players responsible for the so-called "lag-trap" experienced lag?

Disclaimer: Blada-blada-blada, not associated with any special interest groups, etc., etc.

krazydude: "That's what happened to all of Pond's ex-members"

:o am i next? *runs and hides*

Sounds like you're done for esnow

I'm with SDL and Roen here...

I'm not trying to point any fingers, But the staff cannot be 100% sure that moderators were not involved...

Thats like me saying, "Well, No one from my clan was involved"...Well, I can't be exactly sure without digging deep into the Syrnia server, to which i have no access.

And SDL, It is rather annoying when your words get deleted/edited even when they don't violate any rules...Government Censorship much?

As for the bug issue itself, We do not need any more rules, Written or Unwritten. Perhaps rather than trying to manipulate rules, We could manipulate coding to prevent such things.

I am not a miner, but I do think players should have the ability to drop their ores in the OL to their stronger, better suited protector.

It would appear that some haven't heeded the warning. Ticket sent.

So the players who abused this bug got away without punishment?

We have not forgotten about it....

So what are the ramifications of this? Players are allowed to break rules without punishment?

Players who get punished for any rule breaking should now reference this thread and ask why they were punished but not other certain players...

Obviously. That's why me and my multis have never been frozen. That's also why I can't leave Pond, because the minute I do, I'll be punished by the mods. That's what happened to all of Pond's ex-members.

Funnily enough what happened to okietrader and trader99 after they left Pond?

Edited on 04-10-2009 11:25

Being that I was not one of the players involved in creating or being hindered by said bug, my comments are based on only what I have read by other players.

The Issue

As far as I am aware this wasn't a new trick, people have been doing it a while, it's just that no-one had really complained about it until recently.However, just because no-one was complaining doesn't mean that they should have been allowed to continue it unpunished.

Defining it as a bug

I do not understand why it was necessary to wait and decide whether or not this was a bug or not before doing anything. If you look at the rules it clearly states:

"If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen"

- Now firstly we can rule out that intentionally causing lag for other players was a conscious design on the Admin's part, so therefore it is an unwanted aspect, or a "Bug".

- Secondly, now that was have identified it as a "Bug", we can clearly see that it falls into the category of gaining an "unfair advantage over other players", as if you are capable of stopping/slowing down someone's movement through a PvP area where you can then kill them much more easily and gain the rewards of their items, there can be no other definition for it than gaining an advantage.


Post-Definition

- Having decided that you were not sure whether it was a bug and should be punishable or not, even though it was obvious that it was. You then only posted about it in the forum. I see no update on it in the Rules, nor was there a News Announcement. So this causes several problems:

- Firstly that by refusing to accept it as punishable before defining it specifically, you allow the players who did it before said definition to get away with it. Being that a lot of the Mods are from the same group of allied clans, and that there were people from those clans abusing the bug, this leads one to believe that the reasons for waiting and not punishing them was purely selfish. Whether the person is your best friend or worst enemy, being a Moderator means you have to be impartial and dish out the same punishments to all who deserve them.

- Secondly, only those people who read chat/forum would be aware that this aspect was now being punished. So those who do not but continued to use it (As they had previously had no inclination that it was going to be punishable as it had been going on for a while) would now be banned, with no prior warning.

- By waiting to define this 1 bug as a bug and as abuse of the game, you have now opened up a can of worms. For any bug now that isn't specifically mentioned in the rules or has been specifically defined as a bug/abuse of the game, is now no longer considered a bug until it has been defined, and as such you cannot punish people for abusing them, when you have not made it clear that it was a bug and was punishable.


What you should have done

- You should have put a stop to it as soon as it was first noticed. It was clearly a bug, it was clearly abuse of it, and therefore should have been dealt with as such.

- If you absolutely insisted on having to wait to define it as such, a news post and a clear update of the rules should have been made as well, not just a forum post.


Additional Comments

If there is truth to the accusations that Moderators are allowing their own clans to benefit from this situation, by not punishing those members who deserve to be, then you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is a game, it is solely for fun and enjoyment, and using your "Power" that you have here to gain unfair advantages over other players/clans is totally reprehensible.

If it is found that people have been doing this to benefit their own clans/game experience, then they should be punished. And if they are a moderator who has abused his/her power in such a way to gain benefit for him/herself or others, then they should be stripped of Mod status and themselves given the same punishments as those who were found guilty of abusing this.


This post in no way represents the views/opinions of any Clan/Group or other gathering, it is the sole view of the individual Novus Mortuus/HeatOfTheSun. Novus Mortuus/HeatOfTheSun takes no responsibility for any hidden insults or meanings read from this. Interpretation of said message is entirely at the discretion of the readers, and any reference to people or players living or dead is merely coincidence. You do not have to respond to this post, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in an argument. Anything you do say may be twisted around and used against you.


Edited to fix Paragraph and add disclaimed

Edited on 04-10-2009 14:42

Pretty much what I was saying further up in the thread. Bugs are no longer punishable until officially declared as a bug with no retroactive punishments allowed. That whole rule has been made totally pointless now

Agreed, they need to remove section 4 entirely from the rules as the mods are free to ignore this rule as they wish it seems. HOTS has already said everything I was thinking very well and is totally correct in his assessment and conclusions I feel.

I was hoping to get some answers from my ticket regarding this but alas, all my questions were sidestepped and in the end I was simply told that they wont be doing anything about it and to close my ticket.

Hots has it perfectly, but I severely doubt that M2H or the moderators themselves care that most of us believe the mods are corrupt? Seeing as the players involved were from the clans that moderators come from ...

Now seeing as the players involved weren't punished in a way we can see, they were definitely not jailed . How does that look? That people are allowed to get away with bugs that are quite clearly bugs.

If someone finds a way of multiplying their items, or gaining extra exp then they are allowed to use it until it is defined as a bug? So they can gain rapidly on others with a huge advantage, and then when the bug is found, nothing comes of it. What kind of image is that?

So in conclusion, all this thread shows is that bug abuse is allowed if

a) The mods haven't declared it a bug

and possibly, b) if you are in a certain clan or 1 of their alliances

Yup, I asked in my ticket if it was true that I could abuse any bug I discovered until the mods made a forum post saying it was against the rules. The reply I got delibrately ignored this and gave me no answer whatsoever.

I would be hugely surprised if I was allowed to abuse an obvious bug in this way which leads me to believe it isn't the bug but the player that decides if rules get followed.

So get used to it, or get yourself a mod buddy, your choice.

3. We are still discussing punishment and this post functions as a warning for all players to not engage in this activity anymore. The staff does not find this action acceptable whatsoever.


Moderator edit:
We do not discuss player punishments, thus you are not aware if any action was taken.

now if this isn't the usual run around were are used to hearing. due to part three of first post some punishment would of been made? this should of been made public (what the punishment is, not who received it). as far as we know the people who used this trick didn't get any punishment. so why shouldn't others do it?

Pipster, in answer to your question "due to part three of first post some punishment would of been made?", I can't say here what was actually said to me in my ticket but the general point was that they will not be punishing anyone who abused the bug before this thread was made. So in the opinion of the mods the worst offenders will not be getting punished.

Talk about locking the stable door after the horse has bolted!

Section 4 - Game bugs

1. In the event that you find a fault with the game, report it to staff immediately.
2. If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen.

i guess they decided this was to be tossed in the trash? another fine failure by those who made this decision!

Of course they will not be punished. We all know who they were. Yet another case of favoritism. It's not what you know, but who you know. I honestly look forward for the next bug (game flaw) that they get to exploit.

How do you know they were not punished?

How do you know they were? hmmm?

It doesnt matter Prom is right...favortism at its finest.

Edited on 04-10-2009 21:13

well they could either be banned, or jailed

And since I haven't see PvP or GM in a jail since the incident I'm saying neither

I suggest you all stop trying to be the popular dude and just let the mdos do their job.
After all M2H made them mades cause they are reliable and capable of making decision. If you think you can do better go write M2H an email with an application.

Im sure the mods discussed this and came up with a punishment they find suitable. Ofcourse this can also mean they aren't punished at all because it wasn't a bannable offence yet.

Get over it people.

*points Jefferyj to HeartOfTheSun's post*

Jeff...man...a while ago the mods posted a list of players who could not get online...I robbed 1 of those players shops...and because of their incompetence I was punished Immediately...not days later...not weeks later...but immediately...do you know why? Cause that player is one of those favorites IMO. If I was the one causing this issue I would have already been punished! No debate would have been needed.

PvP and GM are not the only ones ;)
PvP Says he dinnit know it caused lag
Someone else said they knew (note Siggy)
Now as far as PvP goes I give him his dues and Lestro so be it But ONE player said that they knew it caused lag and done it because he knew it cause others to lag.
I feel that this player should be punished.

With that said I am very please at the mods response, and that they actually are looking at it.
I do not tell the mods what to do nor do i feel I am in the position to call it favoritism.
Neither is anyone else.
Whether the obvious is done is not my call. Nor will I push for ban, jail, void of kills etc.

Thats up to the staff not us.

If there is a staff problem that is also not up to us.

Syrnia in my opinion is in good hands.

"Moderator edit:
"So what if those doing it are Moderators themselves?" Incorrect."

Looks like the mods are up and at it defending themselves XD

Must not be comfortable on how this matter turned out

But anywho, I'm not going to post my opinion on this particular matter, that didn't turn out too well last time I tried it. And I'm not going to congratulate the mods for the up-stepping, either.

"That's also why I can't leave Pond, because the minute I do, I'll be punished by the mods. "

Your a Mod, Your protected no matter what clan you join. All you have to do is respond to any tickets about you and the public is none the wiser.
And if my memory serves me correctly, I believe 2 veteran players were frozen as multi's very shortly after leaving [Pond]...

"I suggest you all stop trying to be the popular dude and just let the mdos do their job."

Its funny how the very few people defending the mods are from the same clan in which many of the accusations are stemming from.


I've been stating the same fact for over a year now, Everyone called me a crazy "conspiracy nut" for attempting to expose the mods for their blatant acts of corruption. Now you see the truth, And hopefully, We the people, Do something with this truth and not just sit here and allow these blatant acts of corruption to continue.

If you feel the mods acted wrongly in this, Don't send in a ticket to the same mods whom are guilty of these crimes, Send an email to M2H at [email protected]

I have sent him a handful of emails. It takes some time for him to reply, But if he sees the masses speaking out, Perhaps he will be forced to open his eyes to the truth.

Mod, You can try and say i'm attempting to "incite anger" in the people, But you wouldn't be farther from the truth. I'm inciting strength and unity among the people who make this game possible, not the ones who destroy and moderate it at the same time.


Edit for Kakashi: Call me what you like, It doesn't change the facts. Whether I'm legally insane, or perfectly sane...The facts don't change ;)

Edited on 05-10-2009 14:22

"Now you see the truth," < You're a conspiracy nut. I can tell.

Boo, he deleted his post. That would have made for some funny replies, too.

Edited on 05-10-2009 17:12

Im back from a 24 hour muting/jailing/forum ban, for my role in trying to get some justice here. Rather than address the issue, they would rather silence players.

Moderator edit:
We do not discuss player punishments, thus you are not aware if any action was taken.

I think this ticket below shows myself and the rest of the syrnia world that they were not punished. So the double blind insinuation that they were punished and we just don't know, wont work here This ticket also shows that the mods are trying to cover it up in this thread with their mod edits.

Is this a new mod strategy to ask how we know someone was not punished, so that they can hide the fact they have not punished their friends. For the simple reason they can then hide behind the "we dont discuss other players punishments". The cloak and dagger techniques of the mods are falling apart at the seams

There is so many more laughable comments from the mod in this ticket, its value is pure gold. Here is just a small continous segment.

2009-10-04 16:11 Senior Moderator
I take that back, This screen shot has logs dated Sept 26 from 16 to 18:00 server time.

the announcement from staff calling attention and informing the community this was not acceptable is
spindoc
[Zen]
26-09-2009 20:46

Therefore you are demanding action that we have already stated was not protected. If you have real new evidence please submit it. otherwise, this is closed

2009-10-04 16:07 Jop
We all know they was exploiting the bug, you know they were exploiting the bug, yet you are not punishing them. Thankyou for confirming that you are corrupt.

THis ticket WILL be publish in various places for all to see.

2009-10-04 16:06 Senior Moderator
there is no date stamp on that video and I believe it was made before the public warning. Hence we cannot take it as evidence of continued wrongdoing.