Hello everyone, sorry for the delays in posting this. There's been a lot of discussion internally that has happened as a result of my last post. Right now I'd like to think of this as the first post from the staff directly addressed to the players to help all of you understand how we see things. This first post, in a planned series of posts, will cover our modly intentions in terms of the game.

When we mod, we will do our best to preserve the natural flow of chat while punishing rule breakers. We understand the harms of over/under modding and will strive to seek a consistent balance. Punishments are not handed out for the sake of punishing, but for genuine breaking of the agreed upon rules. We will do our best to address any questions/concerns in a fair and timely manner.

Some may call us naive or too idealistic, but when attempting to deliver the best modding experience, it is best to aim high. Both staff and players want the same thing: an enjoyable chat where the vast majority can have fun. We will do our best to maintain open communication with the player base and work together to overcome any misunderstandings.

It is our intent to focus on similarities than to focus on differences. We understand different opinions on the state of chat are inevitable with such a diverse community, but only by working together can we have a chat/forum to make the community proud.


Thank you for reading and we hope the community has a better understanding of the game staff.

Thank you for posting this now, atleast.

Glad for you to explain this to us, because I'd rather have more strict mod enforcement rather than no mod activity at all and Syrnia being complete chaos, however I think that over-moderating is something that will make the Syrnian community worse than having less strict moderating.

A reply from M2h will do more than 1000 Mod posts.

Nothing we did not already knew.

Nicely written, shame about the content. Its complete gumpf, gibberrish of the highest order. Theres very little consistency in the Modding as it stands, so why not have a debate amongst yourselves, find out exactly where lines are to be drawn and then inform us, so we have at least a chance of staying within the rules?

If the Mods stopped trying so danged hard to look perfect and actually made a half decent attempt at a universal and comprehensive set of rules, that weren't so heavily reliant on "Mods discretion" I for one would be happier.

At present, it doesn't really matter what the Mods say or do, regardless of the rules as they have that fantastic get out clause.

Now, if any of it were true, we could make some progress.

To respond to Preff:

Consistency of course is going to be difficult in any undertaking. That's what I say in the initial post after all. There is this assumption though that no communication happens within the mod team at all. That one mod will do whatever and then when the next mod pops in then the rules change. That's not how it goes at all. We will discuss "gray" areas and will come up with a consensus on how to handle the issue. We're always looking for better ways to do things so we will reexamine any issue as needed and see if there is a better way to handle it.

Now for the last part on what you said Preff, I think you don't quite realise our position. We have multiple groups within the game all seeing various takes on any given situation. We're not all going to see eye to eye. But what we can all do is see if we can get a universal conception of what we ought to do when any given situation happens. I understand if you're frustrated that your particular viewpoint isn't being represented but at please understand how we do have to cater to the majority of the game.

Nice to see you communicating to the players Spindoc. As that is the biggest frustration seen in the community of syrnia.

Yet as Preff pointed out it doesnt really actually say much except the following. "We do our best and are attempting to correct mistakes and make moderation more consistent".

Now the cynic in Me wonders if this is just an attempt to make yourselves feel better for so long leaving everyone in the dark. And a stalling tactic. Will things really change?

Now with regards to other things, will there be a statement on any potential updates and work of the focus team for example? Another lack of communication causing issue in syrnia.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but lets be honest here, the way things stand, a phrase thats common to many can be outlawed with no warning, no attempt to communicate said change and no slack given to an unfortunate player who then uses said phrase. Happened to me recently, and I kicked off alarmingly about it in tickets too. Where are we the players informed of these changes? Where are we the players supposed to look if it is indeed our responsibility like the rules state? Its certainly not in the rules themselves.

Thats just an example, my problem is this, if what you're saying is you are "striving for consistency" you guys need to strive harder. We the players have a vague idea of what the rules are and try to keep within them (excluding the deliberate rule-breakers obviously, no rule book will dissuade them) but the rules either change or a mod uses their discretion and we're all in the dark again, its frustrating to say the least.

And of course, theres the other leading issue.. why are the Mods taking so much upon themselves? Why are the Mods having to release a Mission statement? Where is the Mission statement of the ONE person who actually matters..M2H himself?

Good effort mods. But this whole thread doesn't really say anything new... all it says is that you're "trying", and that's basically stating the obvious.

but yea. Better then saying nothing.

i agree with preff here. there is far too much "mod's discression" here. what that leads to is exactly what we all see as the players of syrnia. when you mods do not even see eye to eye on how the punishment goes and what is and is not punishable, it leads to this major inconsistancy. this inconsistance is the issue. its not really a matter of over or under modding.

a vague example is: a player commits a breakage of a chat rule, the mod that is there and on duty at the time sees it... yet does nothing or only issues a pointless warning.

a while passes and a completely different player creates a situation much like the first situation mentioned. the mod that sees it this time is different and sees the action punishable by a mute and or jail.

you may and may not say that this "canny" or "doesnt" happen, yet i think almost ANY given player that you could pull aside and ask would tell you that they have witnessed this very thing. i know for a fact that i have seen it happen more than once. i have even brought it to the attention of the mod staff just recently as a matter of fact.

i was basicly told that since the problem did not occur directly with me, there was nothing i could do about it, and the situation would be dropped and ignored unless the player(s) that were involved came to the mods and not myself.

in conclusion to how i feel, i would be in hopes for a accurate and consistant set of rules that applied to EVERYONE, fairly and justly. i am all for rules to contain and eliminate the rule breakers. i have a child of my own that plays syrnia and i disable world chat as to not have him included in it because of the occasional mishaps and the modding in case he had a mishap.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Preff. I appreciate the attempt to communicate, as that is sorely needed. However, we don't want fluff.

Please continue with your planned announcements, but lets get some meat on those bones.

Thanks!

Prome

Ill keep this brief:
Mods should have an idea of how the game works and should run 'by now'. Of course if there is ignorance on the mods side, choosing to switch off as an answer to the problems then modding isnt for you. Being a mod doesnt require rocket science, as far as I see, only 4 sections need attention Chat, Forum, bug mod, invasions.

I think the personality of a mod should not to be 'too' friendly but should be willing to have an intelligent conversation or joke occasionally in chat. Yes a sense of wit or humor would be a requirement, together with knowledge of all aspects of the game.

-Ally-

Edit spelling

Edited on 24-05-2009 23:50

M2H gave up on us players and gave the game to the mods to run.

Where's Novus to say "Banana", and close this thread when you need him?

My suggestions...

This is such a diverse game, everyone comes from different backgrounds and while that is great, it is also a problem when it comes to "discretion" on rules and what a moderator might deem appropriate or not appropriate.

As I pointed out with the discussion in world chat, it is hard to know what is and isn't muteable/warnable without a set list or a set terms (even if for the moderators to have privately) because of the cultural differences. About a year ago there was a word floating around that some would get muted for, and others would not. It depended upon the moderator who was on and watching chat at the time. Using the old ticket system a ticket was filed (now and days a report), and was sent back with the note "I do not find this word to be offensive in my culture", when others had been warned/muted for it already.

That is just an example of what I think is an error that should be corrected. Inconsistancy is also key in making errors. The fact that a word pertaining to a persons behind was once warnable/mutable and is now not is an error. If we are to keep a set rule, and are to use our own common sense the rules should not fluctuate based upon the staff and what works towards pleasing the general community because that causes confusion. This confusion leads people to saying "well such and such said it, didn't get in trouble, and has over used the word now when I use it, it's a problem?", which leads to what? People saying mods are playing favorites.

I can't say that I blame any mod cynicism from any player at this point. All I can say is that today marks the first step of how we're going to talk about how things within the game are going. What we are establishing here is a foundation for future discussions within the game. Thank you everyone for your feedback and my next post will discuss the focus groups.

I have a feeling that I'm not the only person who will read this and think it sounds kind of like "we're from the government and we're here to help".

I think the best way the mods can change is for them to rewrite some of the rules as they are too vague in some areas and the rules can be changed by the mods without telling the players. Also mods need to be slightly more lenient on players as well, as they are handing out some very pointless mutes and punishments. Mods also are very stubborn in my opinion and wont go back and undo a mistake this aura of arrgonace of the mods needs to change. You are not infallible and need to recongise you sometimes make mistakes.

When the rules are changed, players should be able to see what rules were changed instead of something like this post here. Forum -> Announcements -> Rules Update/changes which told us the rules were changed but gave us no clue on what was changed by the mods. It is a long enough document and expecting people to read through it all is kind of asking a lot of them in fairness. they should also take into account the opinions of the players a bit as well. But my biggest problem is the lack of transparancy by the mods, you dont show know when the rules are changed and how they were changed. Ticket is a particular big issue as well. When your sending tickets it feels impersonal and like your talking to machine instead of a person. I get this feeling because I dont know if I am talking to the same mod over a ticket with a few replies in it. This can be easily solved by giving a number to the mod makes it a bit clearer you are talking to and that it's the same person.

As for the topic it's a nice post saying lovely things in theort but I wont hold my breath until I see actual change in the behaviours of the mods

I like that the moderators are making a post to the players, regardless of what is even being said. Communication is a good step forward. I hope that everything goes smoothly.

i will put forth a suggestion. perhaps you all should have each mod write a little about them selfs and what job they have in syrnia. also add to this why they do it. many people think mods only are mods so they can punish others, but i doubt this is the case. if people had a grasp of why mods do what they do maybe they cut them some slack. also i will point out mods don't need to give their in game names for this just have spindoc or another mod post for them.

another suggestion is maybe make a mod appreciation day? why not have a day to celebrate mods and their thankless job in this game? sure you all can spice it up with some contests or whatever you all want.

and another suggestion is get rid of those blanket (mod) moderator move it along, or this subject is no longer suitable for chat. i know each mod is quite able to type out what the problem they see in chat so just say it. people will either listen or not to direct orders, then if they chose to not then mute them.

yet another suggestion. make it so you can whisper back a mod who whispers you. if this takes M2H adding a reply feature to the game, then so be it, i am sure that wont be hard to do. this would cut down on tickets sent in then waiting hours for a simple reply to them.

from my point of view this game has been running for far to long with the attitude of it is the mods vrs the players. i hope that today is the first step in many to make this a thing of the past.

thanks spindoc and all the mods who helped in this first step.

p.s i will be out of town for a week so i hope i don't miss to much,and i look forwards to more posts when i return.

I hope it's just one mod responsible for the problems caused.

Consistency will never be achieved so long as there are still rules that basically say,
You can and will be punished for any rule not stated here that we might make up without informing you.

"Note that these rules are subject to change at any time and without warning."

"We reserve the right to add/edit the rules as and when we see fit. These changes will be announced."

Lol, even the rules contradict themselves within the first 7 lines...And you expect consistency based on those rules?

Remove all the "loopholes" from the rules that the mods have created in order for them to always be in the right, and perhaps you might not have so many people upset about the modding.

I for one am glad that the game administration is beginning to listen to the players. Everyone knows, if we didn't like/love this game, then we wouldn't be here.

Administrators please consider the following:

-let the players know a little about what updates are comming, give us a teaser
-keep an open dialogue with the players
-I can see where the rules themselves can make some people antsy
-seeing M2H playing and responding to players would greatly boost morale

Players consider the following:

-the administrators are human, and do make mistakes
-if you take the role of antagonist then you reap what you sew
-everything that is being planned does not need to be shared before it is implemented

<--- Thinks preff has said exactly what needed to be said.

Preff for president

i agree preff for replacing obama he'll do much better

As I am a new player to Syrnia, I have liked the gameplay so far. Yet thought I am not a frequent chatter, I still see some concerns and actions. Reading this post, I have found out there is "behind the scenes" difficulties. All games have this integrated into their game, some know of it, and others don't care.

I would like to submit an idea for the Moderator, and Public to be on the same page, and maybe see each others point of view and come to a consensus of terms.

Two days of the month, the moderators come to public and address their problems with the public. In a timely matter, I say two days at the most the post be open to the public gameplay, any player who decides they want to give their "two-cents" worth on the problem can. Polls, and voting can take place to see what the public has agreed to. The moderators will come to their own decision and come to the public and give it out in a post. Then the public will have one last time to stand for their side and come to agreement with the moderator problems and hopefully settle it.

I will not choose the days, or times of how long a post could be open to the public, but hopefully setting up this type of "concern" will maybe help the gameplay behind the scene in syrnia.

_________

If moderators are subjected to be strict over to one part of gameplay, and only do their job on that part, it wouldn't be "inconsistent" and "vaguely" responsible for another moderators troubles, but if you have two moderators watching over something, you will get mixed reviews and problems. I highly doubt syrnia, has a wide standing on their moderator views and responsibilities to the players, thus so many concerns of players. Don't limit your powers to just a few people, be equal to every player and maybe have a "Player of every point of view" be part of the moderator community.

Edited on 25-05-2009 20:33

lol, shame i missed this when it first came out.

I just want to point out one thing, some food for thought if you will.


Angry syrnians always complain there is no communication from staff and players.

Staff then communicates with players to try to fix this.

Players then just mock them and post nothing but closed minded rubbish in reply.


Nice chain of events. I really think that anyone that posted something negative on this post should sit back and consider how they are really acting. I mean are you all still in the "I'm a teenager I hate everything i possibly can just because" stage?

The community of this game gets worse and worse every week, and all you do is blame the moderation. You really need to wake up and realize when to take some of the blame yourselves and stop acting like children.

Hitting the nail there Rictor.
Amen to that!

Rictor and Jeffrey, had you been in chat with us and Spinny when this was being discussed, you would know that Spinny wanted ALL feedback/comments, be they positive, negative or even apathetic. Our input is actually being welcomed, for a change. It was a bold move on Spinnys part and a very noble one too.

Now heres a little food for you two, rather than just snipe from the sidelines and gripe about things like "community is getting worse" try actually participating, like we did with Spinny. Who knows, when we all know where we stand, we MIGHT find a common ground and the community MIGHT improve. Just a thought.

"lol, shame i missed this when it first came out."

If I had been here I surely would have. Maybe next time someone will whisper me to come to world chat

I'll whisper you next time personally. Spinny is going to inform us of somethings regarding the not so focussed focus groups next, so get ready. lol

I am ready lol

I'd like to hear what is happening with the focus group .. that was one of the better ideas to come about lately. However, more important, any ideas, improvements, etc, they come up with will have to be coded .. what's the chances? That's something I'll be interested to hear about as well!! XD XD

Preff, if the chat wasn't that messed up I might switch it back on after 2 years.
However looking in chat history now and then doesn't really give me alot of hope for the future right now.

Maybe in a next lifetime

I happen to agree, chat for the most part has become nothing but dross, and I spend large periods of time avoiding it like a Lepers Kiss, but I do make the effort here and there.

I make the effort for two main reasons:

1) There are still a few players who have been here a while, that do still venture into chat, if only briefly, and I enjoy talking to them.

2) If all the experienced, older players avoid chat, then the n00bs and Spoons have won. Chat will continue to slide down the slope its on and become nothing but song/artist, spam and crap we're seeing it become already.

Too many of the older players don't feel comfortable talking in chat, not just because of the Spoons and Muppets though, the Mods have played a part in this too. There have been too many instances of Mutes for little infractions whilst other infractions go unpunished. Others feel they have been victimised by Mods due to a clan issue or some other perceived bias too.

Hopefully the communications with Spinny will hopefully lay a lot of the later instances to rest, clear the air a bit, and the older players will be able to return to the chat we used to have as recently as 2007. Like I said in my last post, if we all know where we stand, we might find some common ground, and the community might improve

all I have to say...
to some of those posting here...

Smug much?

not to be directed at the player posted directly above me, but rather to a number of players who do not see this post as it is.

Edited on 22-04-2010 19:03

Rictor's point was fairly decent, except for this:

"I'm a teenager I hate everything i possibly can just because"

Stereotypical rubbish, adults here are far worse

I've only been here a little over 2 years, Never had chat turned off up until a few weeks ago when the mods chose to ticket me for every comment made in chat or the forums. I have since given up on chat, and I only reply to the forums that seem to be headed in the correct direction.

I do truly hope that this attempt at communication, between players and staff, does its purpose and the staff does actually listen to the thoughts and opinions of the players.

Thank you Spin for taking the time to keep us informed. It is very appreciated, Now lets see if we can take a step forward through this communication, instead of 2 steps back.

I mean are you all still in the "I'm a teenager I hate everything i possibly can just because" stage?

I am still in that stage

The community of this game gets worse and worse every week, and all you do is blame the moderation. You really need to wake up and realize when to take some of the blame yourselves and stop acting like children.

thats why i dont talk


P.S. The comment on replacing obama was as on topic as the one as for president above saying the same thing


I 100% agree rictor

Smitts, my point was adults are acting like children...lol

You guys are funny.

but you are stereotyping how children act

as you are stating adults act in this way. Not all children act in this way, maybe the small amount that do are acting like adults ?

re: "Angry syrnians always complain there is no communication from staff and players.Staff then communicates with players to try to fix this. Players then just mock them and post nothing but closed minded rubbish in reply."

Wrong, not "always".

My overriding complaint is and pretty consistently has been the lack of rational adult leadership for the game, not a lack of communication from whatever clique is running things. The communication issues are a symptom, not the problem and as far as I'm concerned the only hope for actual improvement lies with the faint hope that actual new ownership would emerge from outside the game with zero confidence that anything would get better from having anyone currently affiliated with the game. The last bit is about the further thing from the truth I can think of really.

So no, not "always".

I think this post shows a willingness and a desire by the mod staff...or at the very least spindoc...to improve the game and the community. I think we should all look at that as a positive thing. Modding isn't easy especially when a lot of times judgments calls are required. No two people are going to view/react in the
exact same way no matter how precisely the rules are spelled out.


I will remain optimistic that there are good things to come and I look forward to hearing more updates from spindoc.

Thanks spindoc for your efforts....they're not unnoticed.

goodlife

lol, Robocops, anyone?

Kind of funny I been gone two months almost becasue of work and what not I come back and lets see to hear that someone is not in world chat but wanted whispered to join world chat that they themselves have turned off for whatever reason... Thinks that the few of us that try again and again to see the game we once really enjoyed playing before some really upseting things occured repeatedly. I have myself made friends of most of the people in this game that didnt like me here in other games.. I have on the other hand not been here to play have missed alot about how things will hopefully change for the better I am a believer in change... Change is hard but good new fresh starts are something to be tried and see if they actually exist. I believe that the staff really wants to try to make this a better place. We have been told that before lets see if a change actually comes about. Lets put our best foot forward and see what the future of Syrnia will be. I am willing and I can tell you I have suffered from the stupidest of punishments I believe that we can have fun and a change especially if spindoc says it is possible why else would I bother try again in this game lol I been happy without this game in my life lately

English only:
I speak American english and as such I might say "You need to wipe that dirt off your chin with a clean napkin." To American english speakers this is a clean statement. But to British/Australian english speakers this could be taken as a dirty statement (because American napkin is a British/Australian serviette and a British napkin is an American feminine napkin.) So some may find this inappropriate but others not. So to be consistently and equatably moded the term "napkin" should be put on a list of words not to be chatted. This was just an example and the purpose was to show that there needs to be a list of inappropriate words so all will know what is inappropriate since we come from different cultures. This will also reduce one mod punishing for something that another mod does not punish - thus reducing confusion and the feelings of bias and unequally applied moderation.

Gray area:
When the mods have a gray area discussion then the rules should be clarified to encompass that gray area so its a black and white issue. Once the Rules are modified then all players can know the new mod understanding.

A British Napkin is a table napkin the same as a serviette (which in Britain usually means its disposable/paper rather than cloth). A nappy is our equivalent to a diaper. As for a feminine napkin we have many names for them, but not napkin.

But I am sure this is not the place for discussing the niceties of language

Edited on 21-07-2009 23:07

Crow: Wiki, my past girfriend and many others must have all been wrong then. Please see "This was just an example and the purpose was to show..."