bellabell3
[Loyal]
10-02-2017 03:48
| There's nothing to stop low CL players having fun in OL now, nothing. At low lvl you haven't got much to lose, go out there with cheap gear/tools and have at it. The risk factor in OL is what makes OL attractive, it should always be free for all. It is the main point this game, it should always be risky and bad. Any changes i.e. safe zone/capping, no matter how small it is will make it lame. This game evolves around combat, you don't train years of combat to go to OL to be face with a safe/cap zones that you can't attack and you have to sit around wait, wth?!!
bellabell3 struck and dealt 97 damage to the Obsidian flame dragon.
Critical hit: You struck and dealt 100 damage to the Serpopard.
You successfully enchanted the Puranium axe, you gained 570 magic experience. |
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Mr. Addy
Keeping this game free by adding ads to every topic |
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Roku
[-TMP-]
10-02-2017 06:36
| Despite being new I am 50/50.
I agree it might make it more attractive for lower players and stop the people who have trained for 10 years 1 shorting pretty much everyone. People can have 200 mining and 200 fishing with 1 combat and thus hold a lot of wealth, and might need to cross.
On the other hand...there are orbs which you can use to get you across which aren't expensively comparatively to how much weath you would carry if you were thinking about using orbs.
Coming at the angle of purposefully going out into the OL's to kill instead of just crossing, I'd maybe say a random safe spot every 5 minutes might work better (1 safe spot stays for 5 mins then it moves). This is because in the perminant lower CL might mean people hire lower CL people to kill specific targets who are in those areas, or something |
HellHound
[~X~]
10-02-2017 08:24
| I guess Ill offer my 2 cents because I *Currently* spend time in the OL.
I absolutely disagree with "combat level restrictions".
The PvP arena is a free for all and should remain so forever. The age old argument is that we put the time into combat bla bla bla, and then you say that just because its always been that way bla bla bla. Well, yes, it should remain that way. Completely changing the foundation of the Player Vs Player combat arena is not an option, and adding "safe zones" or CL restricted areas is not the answer.
One issue is that Syrnia is largely an afk game. There are a few people that go looking for players to kill and usually do so a few times a day for about 30 seconds. The vast majority of players just don't go out there to begin with... for whatever reason they have. Those of us that do, well...**If you die out here, you will lose all your items!**, and we take the risk to get the reward.
If you want a proposal to make the "Outlands more active"... then I'll offer you a suggestion.
Perhaps the OL itself is just too outdated and needs improvements. Here are a few constructive ideas for your post:
-Ill just say new, bigger map here because of the following ideas.
-More entrances/exits
-The addition of skill locations for different levels, especially fishing and woodcutting.
-Turn the existing drops up a small %age
-Add a new fish or two that can only be caught in the OL. >> Make the cooking xp worth it too*
-Add a new seed that can only be found woodcutting in the OL.
-Add a new gem or gems to mining for them fancy new orbs that we don't have yet that can only be found mining in the OL.
-Add new drops that can only be obtained while doing skills in the OL. Maybe a locked box, or *Something* that compliments a future update.
-^^^Make them useful/valuable enough that it encourages people to venture into the PvP arena.
Now... regarding your "combat level restrictions" and "safe areas"...
-Fix the Battlemage.
-Add more frequent fights.
^^ Ive seen posts where people want clan wars, or maybe 2 players want to fight each other in a private match. Fine, add that too. Make them pay a fee to set up the fight (Gold sink). Put an arena tent at Elven gate and Eylsian docks too if you think that will help draw players into arena fights.
Edited on 10-02-2017 08:36 |
Sinistar
[Pond]
10-02-2017 08:45
| I think the outlands would be better if higher skilling zones were added.
Currently if you compair mining, to woodcutting & Fishing in the Outlands, there is a gap in what you can do.
Currently mining dominates the outlands with the incentive to what you are able to achieve per hour experience wise.
Update and make the other skills as relevant as mining gains, and maybe they will become active again.
Edited on 10-02-2017 08:47
[3]21:50 Lamb[Pond]: Cloud has spoken. All discussions must cease.
[3]21:49 Jeffreyj[Pond]: To discuss more of your problems Pond desires a 50 dollar fee. |
C4LV1N
[SWC]
10-02-2017 17:04
| People don't go to the outlands to have evenly matched fights--I don't, and I don't expect most other players would, either. They go for one of 3 reasons: either they want to take advantage of the work locations, they want to get across, or they want to kill players who are lower CL or slower than they are.
Having tiered combat regions wouldn't significantly change this.
That doesn't mean I'm opposed to this idea--but I don't see much benefit, and I don't think it would change the way I play the game much if this change were made. |
syterth
[-TMP-]
10-02-2017 18:25
| The OLs need to be made accessible to the entire playerbase. That's the real problem and there's no easy solution. And before some asinine person steps in to say: "There are no restrictions, it already is..." No. That's not valid.
Argue about putting in the time all you like, but that means you're cutting off any new players forever, essentially. Since this game is very dependent on putting in the time, new players simply cannot catch up to a CL 100 person. They, on the other hand, will forever be combat demi-gods. Great for them, but that completely ruins any enjoyment for other people. Why risk running around in the OLs if you're guaranteed to die if one of those people are waiting. That's insane.
Yes, something should change. Something interesting could even happen. And yes, that might upset the current balance of power. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
There should be a segment of this game and its development dedicated to seeking out and retaining new players. Otherwise, as people lose interest or die in real life, this game eventually fades to nonexistence. If that's what Borneo wants, then fine, but that runs counter to the rest of humanity and its endeavors. We always strive to change for the better. Or, to change to remain existing. |
desti
[CLEAN]
10-02-2017 18:37
| I personally know 3 players who have quit because every time they try to complete the Valera sword quest, they go to the OLs to kill the Bunny yip and there is some jerk camping out just so he can kill the newb and take what little they have. I just think there should be level restrictions so the new players at least stand a chance of completing a quest without getting pk'd by some idiot who likes being a jerk. I won't name names here, but I'm sure he knows who he is.
Argue for your limitations,and sure enough, they're yours. |
Karisade
[TSoH]
10-02-2017 19:31
| I'm not surprised that certain high-level pkers oppose this idea, since its implementation would diminish their ability to hunt and kill weaker players for their own selfish benefit. However, there's no doubt that the majority of the Syrnian community would be in favour. Comments like 'you've not much to lose in the Outlands at low levels' show how out-of-touch some elite fighters are with what players want. The vast majority don't want to go there because they have nothing much to lose, they want to go there to have fun. And if you understand game theory you'll know that, in general, a risk factor needs to be balanced against a decent chance of victory or reward to be attractive to players. Newbie fighters have zero chance of success in Outlands combat and non-combatant miners frequently lose their work rewards to roaming pkers, who are already fabulously wealthy. This is why newbies using the Outlands is a rarity and partly, I believe, why Syrnia's newbie dropout rate is so high. There are plenty of other games out there that don't require you to train combat by slavishly watching timers for hundreds of hours in order to realistically compete in PvP. To expect players to do so is just silly - most people will simply find more fun or constructive things to do in their spare time.
That said, I do prefer the idea of implementing alternative PvP zones, each with different level restrictions. That way, hardcore traditionalists could keep their precious Outlands 'pure' whilst the remaining 95% of players would be able to enjoy themselves too.
Riddle: "The man who built it doesn't want it, the man who bought it doesn't need it & the man who uses it doesn't know it."
Answer: A coffin or Syrnia.
[W] 19:41 Crystal[A.D.]: You have married Karisade! |
Guts
[CFH]
10-02-2017 19:48
| I say no, I havent been busting my butt getting my combat higher just to be barred with restrictions because some newb wants to have a fair fight.
There is no such thing as perfect. You're beautiful as you are, Courage. With all of your imperfections, you can do anything.
You're only looking at the tree, not the whole forest. |
BladeSlayer22
[O.G.]
11-02-2017 03:26
| This is a timer-based, incremental game. The only real resource is time spent playing this game. "Skill", "luck", etc. are all nothing in comparison to how long you've had the patience to type a series of numbers below a gray fuzzy box over and over and over again. You invest more time, you get better results. The OL is literally the only place to take advantage of any other aspects of the game other than pure persistence, and even the preparation for the OL requires some planning and pre-meditation of how you want to distribute your time. When I got to 85 mining (with a 20ish CL) I wanted to go mine syriet in the OL, so I did....and got completely obliterated a lot of the time, but overall I made a lot of gains in both XP and ore (risk, reward), and when I finally decided that getting 1-hit all the time wasn't allowing me to do what I wanted to do how I wanted to do it, I put mining on hold in order to train combat, in order to mine in the OL. There SHOULD be a need for decisions like that, a need for a trade off if you want to take a certain path, ESPECIALLY into an extremely high reward, yet highish risk area. If I had wanted to remain a miner and ONLY a miner, I could either keep risking the OL's with my swing power of a limp noodle or, very easily, take advantage of the "normal" leveling route, and mine in the safe locations till the end of time. Interactivity, specialization and decision making in regards to how to spend your only true resource, time, is a crucial part of the game and really any attempt to make the OL's "easier" violates that, and instead of promoting equality, in fact does the exact opposite. Additionally, there's really no need to ever go into the OL's if you don't want to, as has been mentioned; it's not crucial to the game in any meaningful way.
Lastly, one of the fundamental flaws (in my opinion) in the general argument for OL changes here is the perceived need to make things more attractive to new players, to cater exclusively to them. Are new players healthy for this, or any game? Duh. Fresh blood is always a valuable asset, but at what cost? When you devalue in ANY way the existing players, whom in the case of this game could have been playing for more than a decade, you're taking a gamble on the interest of a random new player in lieu of a "sure thing" in the established player. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Will anyone be able to match the top combatters or PKers? Nope. That's the nature of an incremental game, and getting killed by those that have put in TONS more hours than me really isn't that big of a deal in the scheme of things. Their commitment made them better than me in terms of their combat skills, as it should. I won't ever (likely) catch up, but again, that's the nature of the beast and that should be ok. Just keep trucking .gif)
Just my 2 gp. |
syterth
[-TMP-]
11-02-2017 05:18
| Thanks for a reasonable and well thought out response. |
Karisade
[TSoH]
11-02-2017 10:55
| Bladeslayer - I partly agree with what you say, which is why I prefer the idea of alternative PvP areas as opposed to watering down the Outlands. I can appreciate how castrating the Outlands would be a kick in the groin to everyone who's invested so much time training to dominate PvP. However, active gameplay should be promoted at all levels of the game, not solely as a perk for players who've invested thousands of hours. It's not just newbies who desire this, it's a great many long-time players too. Just look at the response on this thread for starters. It's also something I've noticed in feedback on Syrnia for many years, not to mention feedback in other online games.
With the best (or worst) will in the world, 95% of people are simply not going to bore themselves to death staring at timers for thousands of hours to be able to compete in rudimentary non-animated point-and-click PvP. There are so many other online games available that don't require you to do this, many of which boast far more intricate, tactical, diverse and colourful combat systems.
Also, there's an important point to consider that elite pkers tend to miss. With each passing week, month and year, the distance between the highest and lowest leveled player increases. This means that it takes longer and longer for newbies to compete in PvP. In 2006 you could train hard for a couple of weeks and do it, in 2007 you could train hard for a couple of months and do it. But now we're in 2017. M2H designed the Outlands as a free-for-all, but one which players could access without doing an absurd amount of grinding first. The reason the current situation stands is simply because he didn't update the game. No games designer on the planet would implement a system like we have now, it's a real turn-off to players in general. It's also increasingly unfair to new blood - and that's the point old-timers tend to miss.
Syrnia needs to evolve to thrive and grow vibrant again, else remain static and become an online graveyard for overly-nostalgic, obsessive-compulsive, timer-grinding couch potatoes. Forgive my brutal honesty, but I really do think this point needs to be made.
Riddle: "The man who built it doesn't want it, the man who bought it doesn't need it & the man who uses it doesn't know it."
Answer: A coffin or Syrnia.
[W] 19:41 Crystal[A.D.]: You have married Karisade! |
Sels
[-DRS-]
11-02-2017 11:22
| Nothing has changed in many years - I recall doing the Bunyip quest, heart thumping as the ferry sailed to OLs! Back then the potential to die was exactly the same as it is today- a Cl30 could wipe out a new player trying to succeed in the quest.
Today the same applies.
It is a matter of timing, wandering around and guessing when is the quiet time, when are the PKers asleep...
Store all you can, no creature was ever killed by the logs/ore/gems carried, time it when most are asleep and if you happen to die, try again.
Lived a very fun filled life with the grains of salt that make you appreciate the laughter and the love of family and friends
dreamer349 April '09
Maranda March '13 My Dear Sis
PeZ July '15
Kayeplay Jan '17 |
Karisade
[TSoH]
11-02-2017 11:42
| Sels - it's highly unlikely that a CL30 could 1-hit a player doing the Bunyip quest, not unless they were attempting it with unusually low hp. And the main question isn't about the Bunyip quest, it's about active gameplay that's regularly accessible for players of all levels. If you think that nothing has changed in so many years then you're simply out-of-touch with how unbalanced Syrnia has become and with what the majority of our players want.
Riddle: "The man who built it doesn't want it, the man who bought it doesn't need it & the man who uses it doesn't know it."
Answer: A coffin or Syrnia.
[W] 19:41 Crystal[A.D.]: You have married Karisade! |
Sels
[-DRS-]
11-02-2017 12:20
| What a load of tosh!
I see my Clannies working out there- having fun and they are not 'Uber!' non of us are. In fact one of them smacked me to Sanfew when I was out working the other week, little toad! (and he's lower than I am in Cl)
Lighten up- its a Game 
Lived a very fun filled life with the grains of salt that make you appreciate the laughter and the love of family and friends
dreamer349 April '09
Maranda March '13 My Dear Sis
PeZ July '15
Kayeplay Jan '17 |
Karisade
[TSoH]
11-02-2017 12:35
| Sels, there are two logical flaws in your argument.
1) You seem to think a few of your clannies are representative of the active Syrnia community in general - they aren't. Just read the responses from non-elite fighters on this thread and ask around and you'll see that. And even opinions in DRS seem divided: if you read back through this thread you'll find that Nuthouse supports this idea - and he's probably the most active fighter you have.
2) A few players having fun in the Outlands on (rare?) occasions doesn't equate to regular, active, fair and enjoyable PvP for players of all levels.
Riddle: "The man who built it doesn't want it, the man who bought it doesn't need it & the man who uses it doesn't know it."
Answer: A coffin or Syrnia.
[W] 19:41 Crystal[A.D.]: You have married Karisade! |
Missylee
[TSoH]
11-02-2017 12:41
| in the time it has taken to get to the level to mine in ols, the people who focus on combat have also gained levels. there will never be a time when miners can go mine syriet there based on the time they devoted to reaching their level. the combat player will always be higher. it isnt to me so much that they are higher, it is the seemingly selfish few who beleive they have the right to demand a certain % of ores mined by the miners that arent their clannies or mates that i find to be the worst about ols.
i like the idea that has been put forward here it is really well thought out. thank you for thinking about it and giving a really good suggestion
You Married Veins! :)
They are but pixels on a page. The real worth is to help one another reach our goals :)
Congratulations! You've gained a mining level (100) |
Sels
[-DRS-]
11-02-2017 12:43
| Kari? No matter what I posted you would find a flaw in it - I went out for myself and played - It was Nutty who spanked me to Sanfew- do I mind? Nope
When did you last go out there and work/play?
Lived a very fun filled life with the grains of salt that make you appreciate the laughter and the love of family and friends
dreamer349 April '09
Maranda March '13 My Dear Sis
PeZ July '15
Kayeplay Jan '17 |
Karisade
[TSoH]
11-02-2017 12:50
| Sels - your response is based on an ad hominem logical fallacy and is irrelevant to the topic. However, for the record, the last time I played in the Outlands was when I organised the 'Kill Kari' competition, which was specifically aimed at newbie and mid-level players, and yes it was good fun. But doing such things does not fix the problem: please re-read the two points I made in my last post.
Riddle: "The man who built it doesn't want it, the man who bought it doesn't need it & the man who uses it doesn't know it."
Answer: A coffin or Syrnia.
[W] 19:41 Crystal[A.D.]: You have married Karisade! |
Sels
[-DRS-]
11-02-2017 12:58
| Definition. Ad hominem. An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their argument or opinion
No, incorrect Kari, sorry to disappoint you.
My comments are not based on who posted, but rather more what they posted.
A 'Feedback Forum' thread is exactly that - otherwise it would be called an 'Agreement Forum'
Sadly Calgor has taken down his Ancient Thread of 'Ideas been and gone' or you'd be able to see the same kind of ideas remixed from earlier times.
Lived a very fun filled life with the grains of salt that make you appreciate the laughter and the love of family and friends
dreamer349 April '09
Maranda March '13 My Dear Sis
PeZ July '15
Kayeplay Jan '17 |
Karisade
[TSoH]
11-02-2017 13:07
| I went out for myself and played - It was Nutty who spanked me to Sanfew- do I mind? Nope When did you last go out there and work/play?
Sels: this is clearly a comparison argument aimed to discredit an individual rather than focus on the point of the thread.
In your latest post, you refer to the 'Ideas Been and Gone' thread. Yet surely the fact that the idea of tiered PvP has been mentioned numerous times before (both in chat and in forum) evidences that many players would like to see it implemented?
Edited on 11-02-2017 13:07
Riddle: "The man who built it doesn't want it, the man who bought it doesn't need it & the man who uses it doesn't know it."
Answer: A coffin or Syrnia.
[W] 19:41 Crystal[A.D.]: You have married Karisade! |
wikid
[InGen]
12-02-2017 03:53
| "The goal of this idea is to make the Outlands more active"
I do not see how this concept would make the OLs more active, what would encourage the low level combat players to come out to the restricted areas? the suggested work areas have no rewards to make the risk worthwhile! and if they did, is that fair to all players?
If the plan is to have safe fighting zones to practice with your buddy. Well, 99% of the time you can do that already in parts of the OLs.
Possibly some changes can be added to the OLs in future but I do not see this as a high priority, in my view the activity has been about the same for the last 10 years and its fine.
Oh, and there is plenty of fun for under 50 CL players, darkness for example has killed myself and many others, i'm sure he has enjoyed that!
Great post by BladeSlayer22, everyone should re-read.
. |
R2 D2
[TSoH]
12-02-2017 05:36
| Wow... Intense thread.
Anyway, someone mentioned that PKers still can camp out in neighboring areas waiting for the lower CL players...
This is true, so in a sense, PKers and "people who busted their ass training combat" still will get their fun. The combatters wouldn't have 'trained for nothing'... you still get to kill. Also, all the exits and routes leading to the exits are red, which means it would be free for all. The chase is still there, the PK advantage is still there...
Perhaps even more with the new spots as that would lead more lower CLs out in the OLs?
More kills for you PKers.
[2]22:57 SirBatfink[Snake]: henceforth jan 24 shall now be know as Ardarel Day
You have married vincius! 12/21/12
Rest in peace. <3 |
Blaidd_Drwg
[TxN]
12-02-2017 06:29
| I like the idea of a 'new' PvP area all together that was set up as level restricted.. then lower CL players would have the option of PvP without trying to accomplish insurmountable odds as well as the potential to be able to 'train' up into the larger area and better players...
this should also include moving the 'newbie' quests to the new area as it would make more sense since the reward for a low CL player is not commissurate with the guaranteed loss they get now.
there will always be people prowling in the PvP areas to kill players... I just feel that lower players should be given a chance to fight back and the possibility of survival because as it stands now there is no chance for them at all and no way for them to gain the thrill of killing someone out there themselves since the only players usually out there ridiculously out class them completely.
And just so everyone knows it is pronounced Blaad - Droog.
10000 Bronze hammer sold for 100000 gold. (x 17)
I Hate (Make an offer).. tell the the price you want or its not for sale.. |
wikid
[InGen]
12-02-2017 06:45
| Please give it more thought to what is the drawcard for players to want to go into the restricted zones.
If there is nothing worthwhile, why go there?
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