pipster
[RBorn]
27-09-2009 22:39
| I highly doubt a mod would of done this and not been first to be punished. I haven't been posting much on this, as I know the mods are doing something, while, trying to get this island out at the same time. Why not just wait and see what happens, before calling for coding changes?
If the mods are looking for players perspectives about punishments, I say clean them out of all items, trace anything that they have traded since this started, then get rid of that stuff also. also jail them one day per person they killed. |
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Mr. Addy
Keeping this game free by adding ads to every topic |
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DreadedTroll
[~lll~]
27-09-2009 22:59
| My main concern now is that would the mods have behaved the same way if a less popular player was exploiting a bug (and let's face it, there is nothing else you can call this)? I am sure had I done this (having never been in a clan with a moderator) I would be feeling the wrath of a IP ban right about now.
This basically goes to show if you have friends at the top then you will never come to harm here, there is no other way to describe such a situation but corruption. The offending parties here may as well set up 100 different accounts now, as they are immune to punishment it seems.
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) |
Hazgod
27-09-2009 23:13
| Because a code change would take all of 10 seconds and make this impossible in the future |
krazydude
[Pond]
27-09-2009 23:22
| This basically goes to show if you have friends at the top then you will never come to harm here, there is no other way to describe such a situation but corruption. The offending parties here may as well set up 100 different accounts now, as they are immune to punishment it seems.
Obviously. That's why me and my multis have never been frozen. That's also why I can't leave Pond, because the minute I do, I'll be punished by the mods. That's what happened to all of Pond's ex-members. Too bad none of them is alive to tell you.
That was sarcastic. Just in case.
"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother" |
Calydor
[Pond]
27-09-2009 23:27
| Because a code change would take all of 10 seconds and make this impossible in the future
Yeah, because this game has such a good reputation for quick code updates, right? |
Anibas
[SRN]
27-09-2009 23:42
| Meh, the mods are doing their jobs. Games staff are aware of the issue. It's up to them now. We can all play 'what if?' but let's get back to playing Syrnia instead of finger pointing. |
Become
[JADED]
28-09-2009 00:05
| Ani the game staff dont worry about Bugs they stop exploitation and shouldnt be able to take further action it should be up to Mh and NO-ONE ELSE
"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." |
Roen
[Wild]
28-09-2009 00:06
| "Ani the game staff dont worry about Bugs they stop exploitation and shouldnt be able to take further action it should be up to Mh and NO-ONE ELSE"
Ever notice, when you submit a bug ticket, it usually just sits and sits? Suddenly, when m2h appears, a senior mod works like crazy on those bug tickets? I have a sneaking suspicion, that m2h is actually a senior mod as well. :o
I'm also wondering, if the mods might possibly actually be talking to him now and then, to know what kind of actions to take with certain aspects of a game.
Edited on 28-09-2009 00:07
Prove who you are, show others what it is to do right by you, and don't be ashamed in doing so. You'll feel better about yourself knowing who you are and being certain of what you stand for. |
Phoinix
[~FaM~]
28-09-2009 00:23
| M2H is well aware of the issue and is working hand in hand with the mod team and staff. As far as what powers mods have or should not have is none of our concern and is solely up to M2H.
Critical hit: You struck and dealt 20 damage to the Gold scaled gaman.
Married to Kat 2/13/2008
[2]23:51 Z330Ls[*I*C*]: bob we do it all the time, people are just no whining about it :P |
SirTheta
[MAAN]
28-09-2009 01:47
| Okay, I've been thinking about this a bit and here's my take on it:
What remains to be determined, in individual cases, is whether this was an intentional lag-trap, or rather, a more extensive version of the bait-trap (i.e. some people with a decent CL actually managed to pick all the items up from the ground, so the trap-layer simply extended the trap).
Also, if it is true (I believe Jeffreyj provided this example of himself, if not, sorry Jeffreyj), that some players experienced no lag with many items dropped, than how are we to assume that the players responsible for the so-called "lag-trap" experienced lag?
Disclaimer: Blada-blada-blada, not associated with any special interest groups, etc., etc. |
esnow
[C.D.C]
28-09-2009 02:13
| krazydude: "That's what happened to all of Pond's ex-members"
:o am i next? *runs and hides*
[To: orange]18:41 esnow: Get in my belly! |
SirTheta
[MAAN]
28-09-2009 02:35
| Sounds like you're done for esnow  |
genezen
[~X~]
29-09-2009 12:09
| I'm with SDL and Roen here...
I'm not trying to point any fingers, But the staff cannot be 100% sure that moderators were not involved...
Thats like me saying, "Well, No one from my clan was involved"...Well, I can't be exactly sure without digging deep into the Syrnia server, to which i have no access.
And SDL, It is rather annoying when your words get deleted/edited even when they don't violate any rules...Government Censorship much?
As for the bug issue itself, We do not need any more rules, Written or Unwritten. Perhaps rather than trying to manipulate rules, We could manipulate coding to prevent such things.
I am not a miner, but I do think players should have the ability to drop their ores in the OL to their stronger, better suited protector.
"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds." |
Jop
[~X~]
04-10-2009 11:00
| So the players who abused this bug got away without punishment?
We have not forgotten about it....
So what are the ramifications of this? Players are allowed to break rules without punishment?
Players who get punished for any rule breaking should now reference this thread and ask why they were punished but not other certain players...
Moderator edit:
We do not discuss player punishments, thus you are not aware if any action was taken.
50 Critical hit: You struck and dealt 50 damage to the Sorer queen. 0/20
27 You struck and dealt 27 damage to the Undead priest. 0/55 |
HeartOfTheSun
[Cyber]
04-10-2009 14:35
| Being that I was not one of the players involved in creating or being hindered by said bug, my comments are based on only what I have read by other players.
The Issue
As far as I am aware this wasn't a new trick, people have been doing it a while, it's just that no-one had really complained about it until recently.However, just because no-one was complaining doesn't mean that they should have been allowed to continue it unpunished.
Defining it as a bug
I do not understand why it was necessary to wait and decide whether or not this was a bug or not before doing anything. If you look at the rules it clearly states:
"If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen"
- Now firstly we can rule out that intentionally causing lag for other players was a conscious design on the Admin's part, so therefore it is an unwanted aspect, or a "Bug".
- Secondly, now that was have identified it as a "Bug", we can clearly see that it falls into the category of gaining an "unfair advantage over other players", as if you are capable of stopping/slowing down someone's movement through a PvP area where you can then kill them much more easily and gain the rewards of their items, there can be no other definition for it than gaining an advantage.
Post-Definition
- Having decided that you were not sure whether it was a bug and should be punishable or not, even though it was obvious that it was. You then only posted about it in the forum. I see no update on it in the Rules, nor was there a News Announcement. So this causes several problems:
- Firstly that by refusing to accept it as punishable before defining it specifically, you allow the players who did it before said definition to get away with it. Being that a lot of the Mods are from the same group of allied clans, and that there were people from those clans abusing the bug, this leads one to believe that the reasons for waiting and not punishing them was purely selfish. Whether the person is your best friend or worst enemy, being a Moderator means you have to be impartial and dish out the same punishments to all who deserve them.
- Secondly, only those people who read chat/forum would be aware that this aspect was now being punished. So those who do not but continued to use it (As they had previously had no inclination that it was going to be punishable as it had been going on for a while) would now be banned, with no prior warning.
- By waiting to define this 1 bug as a bug and as abuse of the game, you have now opened up a can of worms. For any bug now that isn't specifically mentioned in the rules or has been specifically defined as a bug/abuse of the game, is now no longer considered a bug until it has been defined, and as such you cannot punish people for abusing them, when you have not made it clear that it was a bug and was punishable.
What you should have done
- You should have put a stop to it as soon as it was first noticed. It was clearly a bug, it was clearly abuse of it, and therefore should have been dealt with as such.
- If you absolutely insisted on having to wait to define it as such, a news post and a clear update of the rules should have been made as well, not just a forum post.
Additional Comments
If there is truth to the accusations that Moderators are allowing their own clans to benefit from this situation, by not punishing those members who deserve to be, then you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is a game, it is solely for fun and enjoyment, and using your "Power" that you have here to gain unfair advantages over other players/clans is totally reprehensible.
If it is found that people have been doing this to benefit their own clans/game experience, then they should be punished. And if they are a moderator who has abused his/her power in such a way to gain benefit for him/herself or others, then they should be stripped of Mod status and themselves given the same punishments as those who were found guilty of abusing this.
This post in no way represents the views/opinions of any Clan/Group or other gathering, it is the sole view of the individual Novus Mortuus/HeatOfTheSun. Novus Mortuus/HeatOfTheSun takes no responsibility for any hidden insults or meanings read from this. Interpretation of said message is entirely at the discretion of the readers, and any reference to people or players living or dead is merely coincidence. You do not have to respond to this post, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in an argument. Anything you do say may be twisted around and used against you.
Edited to fix Paragraph and add disclaimed
Edited on 04-10-2009 14:42
Fly with me into the sun and watch as time begins to burn. |
Hazgod
04-10-2009 14:42
| Pretty much what I was saying further up in the thread. Bugs are no longer punishable until officially declared as a bug with no retroactive punishments allowed. That whole rule has been made totally pointless now |
DreadedTroll
[~lll~]
04-10-2009 18:11
| Agreed, they need to remove section 4 entirely from the rules as the mods are free to ignore this rule as they wish it seems. HOTS has already said everything I was thinking very well and is totally correct in his assessment and conclusions I feel.
I was hoping to get some answers from my ticket regarding this but alas, all my questions were sidestepped and in the end I was simply told that they wont be doing anything about it and to close my ticket.
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) |
smitts
[~ADV~]
04-10-2009 18:40
| Hots has it perfectly, but I severely doubt that M2H or the moderators themselves care that most of us believe the mods are corrupt? Seeing as the players involved were from the clans that moderators come from ...
Now seeing as the players involved weren't punished in a way we can see, they were definitely not jailed .gif) . How does that look? That people are allowed to get away with bugs that are quite clearly bugs.
If someone finds a way of multiplying their items, or gaining extra exp then they are allowed to use it until it is defined as a bug? So they can gain rapidly on others with a huge advantage, and then when the bug is found, nothing comes of it. What kind of image is that?
So in conclusion, all this thread shows is that bug abuse is allowed if
a) The mods haven't declared it a bug
and possibly, b) if you are in a certain clan or 1 of their alliances |
DreadedTroll
[~lll~]
04-10-2009 18:53
| Yup, I asked in my ticket if it was true that I could abuse any bug I discovered until the mods made a forum post saying it was against the rules. The reply I got delibrately ignored this and gave me no answer whatsoever.
I would be hugely surprised if I was allowed to abuse an obvious bug in this way which leads me to believe it isn't the bug but the player that decides if rules get followed.
So get used to it, or get yourself a mod buddy, your choice.
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) |
pipster
[RBorn]
04-10-2009 19:56
| 3. We are still discussing punishment and this post functions as a warning for all players to not engage in this activity anymore. The staff does not find this action acceptable whatsoever.
Moderator edit:
We do not discuss player punishments, thus you are not aware if any action was taken.
now if this isn't the usual run around were are used to hearing. due to part three of first post some punishment would of been made? this should of been made public (what the punishment is, not who received it). as far as we know the people who used this trick didn't get any punishment. so why shouldn't others do it? |
DreadedTroll
[~lll~]
04-10-2009 20:08
| Pipster, in answer to your question "due to part three of first post some punishment would of been made?", I can't say here what was actually said to me in my ticket but the general point was that they will not be punishing anyone who abused the bug before this thread was made. So in the opinion of the mods the worst offenders will not be getting punished.
Talk about locking the stable door after the horse has bolted!
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959) |
pipster
[RBorn]
04-10-2009 20:17
| Section 4 - Game bugs
1. In the event that you find a fault with the game, report it to staff immediately.
2. If one of these bugs allows you to gain an unfair advantage over other players, do not exploit it. Exploitation of these problems will result in loss of any experience and/or items along with being jailed or frozen.
i guess they decided this was to be tossed in the trash? another fine failure by those who made this decision! |
Evert
[Pond]
04-10-2009 20:50
| How do you know they were not punished?
2009-10-03 21:10:01 Evert(96) attacked xxxxxxx, and did 43 damage. xxxxxxx had 0 HP left. |
shockwave
[*I*C*]
04-10-2009 21:11
| How do you know they were? hmmm?
It doesnt matter Prom is right...favortism at its finest.
Edited on 04-10-2009 21:13
Its never funny to the person you are making fun of. |
smitts
[~ADV~]
04-10-2009 21:19
| well they could either be banned, or jailed
And since I haven't see PvP or GM in a jail since the incident I'm saying neither |
