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Forum -> Bosses Board -> Suggested changes

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Anarcho FooBear
[World]
11-07-2021 01:32



The number one issue that needs addressed is the guideline combat level of 100 for level 1 bosses. It misses the mark enough so that is encourages people that don't meet minimum levels but have up to CL120 to die on bosses or continuously heal them because you don't have the appropriate attack level for a weapon that will damage them. I suggest it be removed altogether and let players give recommendations on the levels themselves.

Number two is the amount of heals, it's just too many, worst mechanic added to bosses and then it was ramped up to absurdity.

Three is Golgol in general, he just seemed to take the worst part of every boss and smash it into one absurd lump of why. Heals all the time, smashes any armor except pura, and forces incredibly long fights for a reward that's better than other bosses but nothing incredible for the time needed.

Four was somewhat discussed in three but rewards are pretty weak without a massive party. For the amount of people it takes to make them more worth than regular creatures the bosses just have too high stats to gather that many people and the requirents for some are too steep (these requirements include time needed for the absurdly long fight for miniscule gains).

Five is a suggestion, make the boss gear from insignias and such immune to the boss breaking moves so the armour had a use. Why would someone use it if you need full pura against Golgol? Or why would someone use it if Anders breaks any plate?

Number six is remove the Emma change where she's stronger if the players fighting her are stronger, nothing else in the game does this, it seems it was just meant to kill interest in her.

I can probably think of more stuff at another time

Edited on 11-07-2021 01:43
[2] 05:58 Twitxhy[*TF*]: stop being poor
[2]14:53 Amr[World]: this is called autism
You have married Marley!

0/110 Anders the Deserter uses Vital Strike, striking a devastating blow on zooF and did 110 damage.
Mr. Addy
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Lamb
[CFH]
11-07-2021 02:17



Remove them all would be my suggested change
2015-08-20 02:38:27 Lamb killed Lambchops
[3]22:42 00hed[CFH]: A wolf in sheep's clothing? Haha
Anarcho FooBear
[World]
11-07-2021 02:18



I'm not opposed to that Lamb, but I'm assuming the devs are
[2] 05:58 Twitxhy[*TF*]: stop being poor
[2]14:53 Amr[World]: this is called autism
You have married Marley!

0/110 Anders the Deserter uses Vital Strike, striking a devastating blow on zooF and did 110 damage.
JoveS
[-TL-]
11-07-2021 02:23


remove them all and add more AC5 like dungeons with some more skills than combat and mining ')
[2]17:25 Isaac[AdC]: it amazes me how people keeps dying
[2] 17:04 Isaac[AdC]: well i would be dumb if i died again
[2]16:56 Mr Tiddles[CFH]: Working at McDonalds is harder than being a Doctor :P
Lamb
[CFH]
11-07-2021 02:27



Honestly, I kind of fear for if they expanded arch 5 because it would probably just be an excuse to make up another boss.
It feels like lots of work has gone into these and it just leaves me wondering, why?
2015-08-20 02:38:27 Lamb killed Lambchops
[3]22:42 00hed[CFH]: A wolf in sheep's clothing? Haha
Calgor
[A.D.]
11-07-2021 02:33



Yeah...no. We're not removing them, so we can eliminate that suggestion right off the bat. Changes, depends what comes up here etc.
This is the story of a man named Stanley.
Lamb
[CFH]
11-07-2021 02:36



Sad times for syrnia. I guess its looking like I should move on from this game if the only thing the devs care about is a useless boss system
Syrnia's a sinking ship thats bailing itself out with niche updates catering to only extremely high level players.
Give up on these silly bosses before we lose another year of development with only a broken system to show for it.
2015-08-20 02:38:27 Lamb killed Lambchops
[3]22:42 00hed[CFH]: A wolf in sheep's clothing? Haha
Smeagol
[~FoS~]
11-07-2021 02:52


what lamb said
Must find the precious...
Divinity
[~ADV~]
11-07-2021 02:57



Agreed with Lamb.
[2]09:03 Durins_Bane[Moria]: follow makarov around and he'll drop items before he's seen flying to Sanfew

So long, Earth. Thanks for the air and whatnot.
Cast
[CFH]
11-07-2021 03:24



3rd what Lamb said. I personally don't mind them, but I hate when we're losing so much dev potential to the boss system.
Joined: May 21, 2005

[6]05:19 (Mod)Moderator: once again, just to be very clear - I am not a mod

"When life leaves us blind. Love keeps us kind."
- Chester Bennington
Invictus91
[*TF*]
11-07-2021 04:01



I think that with the addition of what is essentially boss currency, the game is on the right path. What I think would work wonders is an NPC where you can trade the Insignia points with for high/end level content. Let's say you have earned an x amount of insignia points after defeating enough bosses, you bring them to the npc and trade them for maybe a titanium ore or bloodstone ore, heck even scrolls! It would remove the fact that scrolls have just an RNG factor to get them, instead you can "farm" bosses to earn enough insignia points and tokens and stuff, to eventually buy scrolls. Or buy 1K raw shark, 1K cooked shark, 1K gold bars... there should be something for all skillers with moderate quantities in account, of course.

I think this would fix everything, without having to change the bosses too much themselves, I personally think this is a smart baseline. It would give everyone an incentive to fight bosses, and train hard enough to be able to fight them.

Just a set of gear to obtain with the insignias does not cater to everyone, but if there's some shop or NPC where you can buy all sort of variable things with said insignias, it fixes the whole thing. Just make them unable to trade, and unable to put in a clan SH.

Edited on 11-07-2021 04:10
98 Critical hit: You struck and dealt 98 damage to the Rima Soldier. 0/65
Rich
[-CR-]
11-07-2021 04:12



Agree with Lamb
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Pendragon
[*TF*]
11-07-2021 04:17



I think Invictus' idea would be a nice next step, but it'd have to be really limited/balanced if we're introducing trading boss currency for stuff you get elsewhere in other skills.
Miknah
[Hobos]
11-07-2021 05:06


I don't like the idea of an NPC shop selling higher end resources like raw, ores and bars. It may be an incentive to fight bosses but it would also act as a dis-incentive to train those skills, and would impact on high demand resource value.

Scrolls and perhaps other more niche items as a potential reward does sound more reasonable.
Invictus91
[*TF*]
11-07-2021 05:23



^

I think it would not change the value of resource skills, if the amount of ore, raws, and bars are distributed in moderation. Lets just say you defeated 3 level 1 bosses, and 1 level 2 boss, and got 5 "points" in total. Now the time to achieve this is reasonably low. So this should give you a small reward, and nothing remotably ridiculous. I believe as long as the concept is balanced properly, it should not disregard the value of just training the skills for them.

For example if you obtained 5 "points" you can choose something like 500 shark, or 500 gold ore. If you gotted 100 "points" you can opt for something thats more elusive like pura or even bloodstone or titanium ore, an x amount of grouper fish etc.

Of course this example does not have to be the exact implementation, but it gives you a general idea how to start scaling the concept properly.

Being able to get low, mid and high-end goods of choice, for every kind of skiller, with the hard working effort of felling enough bosses sound like a good middle ground to me. As long as the rewards, and the effort are balanced properly, it should not render training skills useless at all.

Edited on 11-07-2021 05:25
98 Critical hit: You struck and dealt 98 damage to the Rima Soldier. 0/65
Divinity
[~ADV~]
11-07-2021 06:11



Yeah cool, just further devalue high end resources obtained by skillers.
[2]09:03 Durins_Bane[Moria]: follow makarov around and he'll drop items before he's seen flying to Sanfew

So long, Earth. Thanks for the air and whatnot.
ShatterStar
[Pond]
11-07-2021 06:20



+1 miknah.
[2]10:45 Cradle[TLO]: Dont forget the part where the Pond guy sells the boat for Pond prices, back to the previous owner. ;)

Im not selling out, im buying in.
Oom Thys
[Snake]
11-07-2021 09:22



So I've actively participated in Boss fights from their release and had to figure out how to tweak my combat built each time the Bosses were changed so that I could fight those that remained viable.

My take on them so far is:

1) I do love the addition of the Bosses. It adds an extra daily active element to combat that breaks the monotone of mostly afk/semi-afk grinding (I obviously like the afk grinding as well or else I would not be playing Syrnia).

Because the current viable Bosses needs at least 6 or more fighters for it to be worth the time and effort it incentivized fighters to coordinate their schedule to take them down. We also had to figure out what special requirements there were for each Boss which was kind of fun to do (I got KO'd buy Antha testing out how much defense was needed). The Bosses have given me the chance to get to know some of my fellow Syrnian addicts a bit better.

- Elvis is the Chad of the group that just charges in and gets the fights started while the rest of us are still waiting to see if enough people will pitch or not.
- Maka is almost always late.
- Rag's got the dry sense of humour and it was either him or wikid that broke a Tiro axe at Antha because they forgot to switch it out (ouch!)
- Mr RNG with his combat only approach does not have the necessary other skills so he gets crit every fight and have hit the deck a few times relying on the RNG gods.
- Musachi, Toffy etc are some of the old guard that only does Kark because it's close to cata I believe.
- I've exchanged some funny whispers with Durins during Boss fights. He's got a wicked dark sense of humour.
- Regularly see Mr Celery, Basspall, Terma, etc

Some feedback on the current Bosses:

1) Antha and Kark are in a good spot now. They give just enough rewards that it is viable for the group of us to do them on a regular basis.

2)Emma and Anders however are not. They sorely need to be buffed a bit.

I agree with Foo, take away the change that makes Emma stronger against higher combat players. Either that or add some extra rewards in either xp or drops to make it worth the while of mid level combatants to organize a group that fights her regularly.

Anders just takes too long and breaks too much equipment for the rewards that he offers.

I can't really comment on Gogol since I've not tried him, but it sounds like he might be borderline viable. More viable than Anders in anycase.
"Everone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth." -Mike Tyson
Calgor
[A.D.]
12-07-2021 15:04



We appreciate that not everyone is a fan of bosses and while it's disappointing, we are not going to remove them and that is an end to it. If people are willing to leave over it then that is your decision and I'm not here to write anything like a begging response to get people to stay.

When we originally drafted the concept for these, the plan was to add a little bit of variety to what is otherwise a very idle element to the combat, something that isn't simply you all clicking "Fight 1 more" or leaving it to AFK while you go and do things and come back at a botcheck. You want to do that? Go AFK at a jungle or something. They were designed to get you to involve with the combat are purely optional. Don't want to engage with them? You don't have to.

We created these with the mindset that they are intended to be lengthy encounters, ones which might indeed be a bit of a grind but there is usually supposed to be a chance of some good rewards at the end of it for your troubles. Note I say "chance", not certainty. This is a staple of the genre that not every large fight is profitable and it's something we agreed as acceptable in this circumstance because it should be a chance of rolling the dice for a good reward at the end of it.

We added new abilities and concepts like healing and armour breaks based on criteria, extra damage for not meeting other criteria which overall have been met with a deal of intrigue and some approval because it's something unexpected that previous fights never had and while we recognise we haven't got everything entirely correct first time and we do appreciate some concerns are raised over the loot and how potent some of the abilities are, we are keen to work with the player base to develop them further to create encounters that remain challenging for players and provide possible hints of good rewards at the end of it.

For anyone arguing how much time this takes from the team to create these, your concerns are misplaced. Right now with the framework we have under the bonnet, it doesn't take a lot for us to add new ones or tweak the existing in terms of their dropped items and changes or abilities and we have a library of additional conditions and criteria with a structure to add new ones relatively easily if we need to. The biggest time sink in this process is probably the functional testing to make sure abilities work as they should, they do the numbers we expect them to do and they don't spit out a ton of errors at us, which still takes a while to go through it. As above, balancing is something we are happy to work with players on to keep that challenge as well as that risk/reward concept we are trying to maintain.
This is the story of a man named Stanley.
Klaus
[Corps]
12-07-2021 17:02


add warrior tokens to Emma to make it worth doing
smitts
[~ADV~]
12-07-2021 17:23


Start with the easy ones:
Kark and Antha - with the new armour, these seem to both be genuinely worthwhile while still taking quite a bit of effort and group co-ordination (I'm a big fan of Antha)

Golgol -
Red Hits on some of Golgols attacks were a lower number than the neutral hit on the same attack on other players, that seems a bit wrong? (And not in line with the other bosses)

The rewards are good, and make it worth the collosal HP input (they may be a bit too good, but I'm not sure if that's just because I'm comparing it to Anders!)

The moves don't work as intended, so I assume that's already being looked at

These 2 maybe need some tweaks:

Anders - It needed bumping, level 2 boss wasn't harder than a level 1 so I get the changes. But with the need for obby plate, and 140 HP, the group that can fight is quite small, and while the level 2 insigna is a good reward, feels like currently you'd just fight golgol instead (who has lower requirements)
I guess as more of us get the HP needed, maybe Anders might become a factor again - but its a lot of obby plates!

Emma - initially fights were being carried by big players, which to combat that, we seem to have been hit with an increase in her stats/HP + the increase when a higher level fights (don't really understand what this is)

It feels like either of those options would have been fine, but both maybe was too much? Now it is a big fight for the small players to take alone, and when a bigger player joins, they become almost irrelevant. (actually possibly a net negative due to tiny hits + healing, so big players even less likely to join)
She does seem to be fought, and it is worth it for the exp, but food use at lower levels is quite high!
ItsFearnyyy
[LoC]
12-07-2021 18:06



Klaus - Emma a level 0 boss unfortunately
[2] 21:35 Durins_Bane[Moria]: i like to fart in my hand and give people covid tests by cupping it over their faces is that weird?

Founder of LoC (Established 14/10/2019)
Klaus
[Corps]
14-07-2021 06:18


True mate but 1 warrior token isnt alot to ask for
ItsFearnyyy
[LoC]
14-07-2021 08:28



Totally agree with you mate and it would have allowed those lower fighters to have a chance to gather the materials for Borealum.
[2] 21:35 Durins_Bane[Moria]: i like to fart in my hand and give people covid tests by cupping it over their faces is that weird?

Founder of LoC (Established 14/10/2019)
Invictus91
[*TF*]
14-07-2021 15:50



- Make Golgol have a rare chance to drop a Jade
98 Critical hit: You struck and dealt 98 damage to the Rima Soldier. 0/65
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