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Forum -> Feedback -> An Open Letter Regarding Scrolls

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zooF
[World]
16-06-2020 05:41



Thoughts, concerns, opinions add whatever you believe needs to or should be done.

Feel free to message me anonymously if you don't feel comfortable posting.

I'll be submitting a ticket with the compiled concerns.

Edit: I won't include every response in the ticket word for word but I will direct them to view this thread for full quotes and to see examples that require more detail

Anonymous: "lul scroll printer go brrr"

[2]09:00 Jeffreyj[Pond]: I think the devs sharing their light on the reasoning behind the update might clarify some things

[2]10:44 Durins_Bane[Moria]: if i get a woodcutting one im selling it to market to show how stupid it's been rolled out

Edited on 21-06-2020 23:18
[W]01:55 bellabell3[Loyal]: going crazy is really a good way to stay sane :D

[2]14:53 Amr[World]: this is called autism

You have married Marley!
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Arivae
[TLO]
16-06-2020 05:52



It seems like this all should have started as a quest that every player could do, or not do. For instance, go see the king. He sends you to kill 1000 salamanders and when completed he says.. oh good job! now we need 100 obby long swords and btw, here is a woodcutting scroll!
Turn in 100 obby long swords and he says, oh good job! now go kill a bunch of yeti's and btw, here is a mining scroll!
Now we need 100k gp. Pay it.. oh good job. there's a cave you can go in, and btw here's a shop scroll!
Not sure about the order of all that but you get the drift.

[3]20:09 fraggelmupp[TLO]: watch out! ari is here to kick ass and chew gum! and she is fresh out of gum!

Joined: October 23, 2011
One should strive to achieve, not sit in bitter regret
Bacon of Doom
[CLEAN]
16-06-2020 07:05



I suggest all 4 scrolls be added to the rima shop. Players that want them can buy them. 25k each seems a good price, maybe 50k for the combat one. This saves time and effort by the coders, making it very simple.

Its one month later and despite being on 16 hours a day i dont have a single scroll to access content i have the levels for, but other players can access and benfit from this content, and theyve had access for weeks now.
Proud leader of Squeaky Clean

Our mouths are clean, our hands are dirty!

Fortune favors the bold.
Raj
[Corps]
16-06-2020 07:11


Info on their drop mechanism like which actions will drop a scroll
Pantera
[A.D.]
16-06-2020 07:28



I think we all need to not complain and pray to the RNG lords instead
[0] 05:46 Pantera got a Black cat.

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#163 Mining
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undecided
[O.G.]
16-06-2020 07:53



these scrolls are a pain in the arse but i presume sooner or later everyone will be able to obtain through quest or buying but the current idea being that only a few get access to the new update by sheer luck for a while
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zooF
[World]
16-06-2020 07:55



Can you elaborate on how either of those are a concern or a suggestion Pantera? I'm asking for thought out posts with actual substance to them, not more whining about people having issues with the update.
[W]01:55 bellabell3[Loyal]: going crazy is really a good way to stay sane :D

[2]14:53 Amr[World]: this is called autism

You have married Marley!
Glenn
[*TF*]
16-06-2020 09:18



The scrolls are a gift to Syrnians as a clan. It shows how certain clans can work together on a high level. The greed of some players puts sand in their eyes and they don’t see the bigger picture.
I was salty at first, but after a while you understand what the game staff is/was striving for.
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.
barun511
[*TF*]
16-06-2020 09:53



I don't actually agree, Glenn. I get where you're coming from, but the issue is that there's no coordinated way to get scrolls except just hope you're lucky. If a scroll was buyable from some new shop, at say, 75k platina for instance, or 2 million gp, it then becomes a clan effort to be able to purchase them. That way, though, there's a clear progression - you know how close you are to a scroll at any given point.

This way, you just have to close your eyes and hope.

Edited on 16-06-2020 09:54
2018-07-06 04:29:52 bellabell3(236) attacked barun511, and did 95 damage. barun511 had 0 HP left.
Vampyre
[Corps]
16-06-2020 09:55



Glenn you're only NOT salty because Barun bought a palace and mining scroll and enticed the holder of a wood scroll to join TF. As of right now you guys are the ONLY clan with one of each of the "important" scrolls and thus can grow fat off the sales of tiromyth tools. You would be salty as all heck if it was TLO or Corps or some other clan with all 3 and you guys were still waiting on one or more of the scrolls to drop.

My clan on the other hand? Most of us seem to be absolutely OVER the scrolls. Sure we /finally/ had a Palace Scroll drop into our clan and were able to round robin share it to start the Open Sesame quest. However that still just gives ONE of us access to the caves. Even once Tin has consumed the scroll and can get to the smithing location we still are going to be at a loss since we cannot supply Bloodstone or Ancient Wood to him due to NOT having the necessary scrolls!


Personally I like the "drop" mechanic but would have preferred that it was ONLY the Palace scroll that dropped. That the /reward/ for completing the Open Sesame quest included the Shop scroll and that the Mining and Wood scrolls were on sale in the shop. (This would have also added a decent gold sink to the game!)

This would mean that a clan would only need ONE palace scroll to share amongst /all/ members. They would all be able to complete the Open Sesame quest and get the shop scroll and access to the other 2. Then the clan's highest smith could consume the palace scroll and gain access to the caves through the "Paying the Fee" quest.

This is still clans working together to support each other. While at the same time making it so not everyone is sitting with their thumb up their butts feeling like its a popularity contest or that only clans who can afford to pay millions of GP are going to get scrolls.


Personally starting to feel like this whole scroll mechanic is to distract us from the fact we won't get another update for 4 or 5 years.
"He who does not fear the sword he holds is not worthy of holding a sword." ~Hisagi Shuhei -Bleach

"My taste in music is your face" - TøP
barun511
[*TF*]
16-06-2020 10:08



Vamp - I actually really like that idea, but the issue sort of remains the same, you're still relying on a super lucky drop. In fact, it's even worse, because one drop unlocks things for a whole clan.
2018-07-06 04:29:52 bellabell3(236) attacked barun511, and did 95 damage. barun511 had 0 HP left.
Liah
[CLEAN]
16-06-2020 10:19



I think more transparency would help. The development team could at least let us know how many scrolls have been dropped/found.
And while I understand the scrolls are supposed to be rare, but we now have very rare scrolls that then allow for a rare item drop. Which makes the rare items double rare, if that makes sense.

It would be better to have a secondary way to obtain them. An expensive purchase, or a quest reward for a long but doable quest for the majority of the player base.

Edited on 17-06-2020 16:04
We can only be who we are, no more, no less
Vampyre
[Corps]
16-06-2020 10:31



Barun this is true. But as it appears is that there are 4 scroll drops a week average. One of each. If the "rarity" of scrolls stayed the same but only 1 type dropped. That would mean 4 palace scrolls a week would drop on average. This would be far better as then within just a few short months, most clans would have had someone who had received one as a drop (or would have been able to purchase one from those who didn't care about their drop). If these clans had taken the opportunity as mine did to share out the Scroll so everyone could start the "Open Sesame" portion? This would mean that All clans would most likely have at least ONE person done the first quest and thus all clans would have access to bloodstone and ancient wood at least.

This would prevent the hate mail I'm sure TF is receiving (I would like to point out here that I meant NO ill will in my previous statement to Glenn. Was just trying to press home to him how it feels being the shoe on the other foot in this scenario.) Also while easing the hate mail to you guys it would give the rest of us hope that so many of us have lost. That is why I wish they would change the distribution of the scrolls.

Though its not only TF who is getting hate mail I wager. Might not be a correlation but right after Corps pointed out in world that we had multiple members on the "Open Sesame" quest someone decided that would be the /best/ time to just rat orb the bejeesus out of Kingswood. So might be all scroll holders will end up getting hate mail of a form at some point.
"He who does not fear the sword he holds is not worthy of holding a sword." ~Hisagi Shuhei -Bleach

"My taste in music is your face" - TøP
Savage
[LoC]
16-06-2020 12:08



Regarding Liahs comment above, how about red chat announcing into world chat when someone finds a scroll and what one it is?
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[0]17:32 Jester *waves at Savage*
Isaac
[AdC]
16-06-2020 13:32



As a temporal mechanic working as a teaser for the new stuff, I could be ok with the scroll mechanic.

However if the mechanic is here to stay, I don't think blocking important top level main game by a very rare drop (or drops) fits the syrnia way or is good for the community. That is better for collectibles with no use in the main gameplay.
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Calgor
[A.D.]
16-06-2020 14:29



It's a staple of MMO games that content can be gated behind rare or hard to acquire items. These items can either be the thing that unlocks the content itself, equipment allowing players to compete or survive the challenges in that area or other options.

The intent of this being that players are expected to grind for the new content as much as possible in the hopes that they too are able to unlock it. Most instances of this, clans or guilds are able to grind for this content together, increasing the chance of someone being able to acquire it that can then benefit everyone but at the end of it there's an awful lot of RNG to it. For those who don't want to wait and grind to acquire these items, this is why sometimes the new items are sold for an outrageous price, because it's a way of paying for what otherwise could take days, weeks or months to achieve. If you have the money for it and the desperation to want it so badly then by all means if you have scrolls, sell them for as high a price as you can get.

Over time, as more of these items have entered circulation, it isn't uncommon for games to then reduce or rebalance the rarity slightly to allow more players access to the new commodity after it's bedded in slightly.

The important thing though is to simply know what actions can acquire that item and a relative chance of success. Doesn't need to be a specific number but at least a confirmation of it being rare, very rare etc. The development should not be expected to provide information of how many have been found either as that could lead to a witch hunt.

Does this current system give early players a leg up on it? Yes. Am I going to feel angry about it though? No. Way to fix this is to continue to follow the pattern of other examples; limited availability, opening up slowly over several months. Saying something is not like "The Syrnian Way" or doesn't fit the community is a ridiculous argument as nothing would ever change if you stuck to this existing way. The mechanic needs time to bed in, be refined and adjusted to both meet the creative direction the development wish to pursue but without causing too many problems and losing the entire player base, hence the above of sticking with it being a drop to access but reviewing the rate as things go on.

Edited on 16-06-2020 14:35
This is the story of a man named Stanley.
TermaMatrix
[Corps]
16-06-2020 14:58



Calgor that is the best post I've read in a long time. Thank you. The penny has dropped for me and I can see the bigger picture now so ty hun ((hugs))

As for the dev team, well done to you all
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barun511
[*TF*]
16-06-2020 15:31



That's a brilliant post, Calgor - I'm with you 100%
2018-07-06 04:29:52 bellabell3(236) attacked barun511, and did 95 damage. barun511 had 0 HP left.
Vampyre
[Corps]
16-06-2020 16:04



Calgor that only works if they review the drop rate and bump it up at a later date. With the way syrnia has worked over the years I'm kinda doubtful that will be done. Meaning they're just going to lose people who get tired of the game.


I do keep checking the premium points section though to see if they don't add the option to just buy the scrolls. Lot of MMO these days are Pay to Play/Pay to Win.
"He who does not fear the sword he holds is not worthy of holding a sword." ~Hisagi Shuhei -Bleach

"My taste in music is your face" - TøP
smitts
[~ADV~]
16-06-2020 16:15


Calgor's post is correct to a degree.

The difference being you can't "grind" for the item. You don't complete a certain number of tasks with the aim of getting the item. An entire clan could spend the next 3 months at minimum timer locations and get nothing.

(And that's if the assumption that they can only drop from combat, mining, fishing and woodcutting is correct? We are having to assume as the drop rate is so low it could just be the case they are yet to drop from a different skill)

Someone could wake up hit a creature on Monday at 00:01 and get theirs. Syrnia seems to have been a grind kind of game, and whilst I understand rare drops, holding game content behind what amounts to a lucky drop is an instant turn off for a number of people.

Spend 4 or 5 years getting your smithing up to the level to use them, can't access the items for 2 years because no-one in your clan gets the lucky scroll drop to do the quest?
Calgor
[A.D.]
16-06-2020 17:43



A grind doesn't necessarily require completing a number of quests or tasks with the aim of guaranteeing an item at the end of it. The concept of a grind can also include completing the same actions several times with the hopes that you may get something at the end of it and it is still possible to grind for an item off the same tasks, same monsters, same actions with no luck because of the nature of random chance. You could farm the same enemies in an RPG hoping one of them drops a rare item needing to complete a high end equipment set or unlock a secret quest chain, doesn't need to be a guaranteed return at the end of a long grind. Believe me I have spent weeks in games with entire groups farming the same cluster of mobs for something and got sod all...I'm looking at you Papal Fez.

If anything you could argue that the entire game mechanics up to now is all about the same grind. Magic requires gems which are obtained by random chance on kills or mining. Locked items are random drops from monsters and fishing. Seeds are from monster drops and woodcutting. If nobody ever got any of those random drops then it would be impossible to progress that skill and that content would be held back behind a random drop, doesn't matter that now you can buy them from others. You could go a whole day fishing and never get a single item other than fish so those skills cannot be progressed without buying them. The only difference with these scrolls is the much higher rarity associated with them which seems to blind people to the reality that this is again another RNG based option and no different to anything else to date.

The argument I have made fully supports reviewing the drop rate at a later date. What that date is, that's for someone in development to determine but initially there is nothing wrong with a very closed off group or a very low rate of return on these items and review who is using it, how much of the commodity has entered the game with the new changes etc and amend accordingly. It's a common tactic for most RPG games; make it difficult to get hold of, high prices and then eventually you drag the prices down as the quantity available increases and you also tweak to balance. The only issue is that this place has never gone with the common tropes of the genre and now that we have started to it has become unexpected. I would fully agree it needs to be made clear what actions can result in these items though because it removes the need for speculation and allows players to start the long grind for these items. Then if it is made clear whether the rate will be looked at in future then this would also handle concerns.

Edited on 16-06-2020 17:44
This is the story of a man named Stanley.
Clydex
[*TF*]
16-06-2020 18:51


I am a fan of the scrolls. Cool new idea. Good job dev team.
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Ihit Youdie
[~ADV~]
16-06-2020 19:26


Of course you are because your clan has them all.
AvengedAngel
[Pond]
16-06-2020 20:11


Good post Calgor, Most here aren't used to the grinding aspect of MMO's where you grind for thousands of hours hoping you will get a drop.


Side note- You expect this dev team to lower/higher drop rates as needed? LOOOLOLOOLOL
Liah
[CLEAN]
16-06-2020 20:14



They don't have a woodcutting scroll yet, Ihit Youdie.
And for the record: I wasn't enticed into anything, if people were worried about that.

Back on topic:
Calgor put it very well and I hope the development team is reading all this. I like Savage's idea of more red chat: communication is key here and we could use some more.
We can only be who we are, no more, no less
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