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24-05-2009 23:04

Hello everyone, sorry for the delays in posting this. There's been a lot of discussion internally that has happened as a result of my last post. Right now I'd like to think of this as the first post from the staff directly addressed to the players to help all of you understand how we see things. This first post, in a planned series of posts, will cover our modly intentions in terms of the game.

When we mod, we will do our best to preserve the natural flow of chat while punishing rule breakers. We understand the harms of over/under modding and will strive to seek a consistent balance. Punishments are not handed out for the sake of punishing, but for genuine breaking of the agreed upon rules. We will do our best to address any questions/concerns in a fair and timely manner.

Some may call us naive or too idealistic, but when attempting to deliver the best modding experience, it is best to aim high. Both staff and players want the same thing: an enjoyable chat where the vast majority can have fun. We will do our best to maintain open communication with the player base and work together to overcome any misunderstandings.

It is our intent to focus on similarities than to focus on differences. We understand different opinions on the state of chat are inevitable with such a diverse community, but only by working together can we have a chat/forum to make the community proud.

Thank you for reading and we hope the community has a better understanding of the game staff.
Think with Dispassion.
Speak with Equanimity.
Act in Calm.
Mr. Addy
Keeping this game free by adding ads to every topic
Dark Lord Resck
24-05-2009 23:08

Thank you for posting this now, atleast.
Hollow Ichigo. :HB:

Michael Jordan was the best Basketball Player EVER.


The Dark Lord is rising back to power.
24-05-2009 23:09

Glad for you to explain this to us, because I'd rather have more strict mod enforcement rather than no mod activity at all and Syrnia being complete chaos, however I think that over-moderating is something that will make the Syrnian community worse than having less strict moderating.
24-05-2009 23:10

A reply from M2h will do more than 1000 Mod posts.
You have been locked up in the Aloria jail.
Reason: Being Too smart.

If i live twice as long as i should, ill only have lived half as long as i wanted.

Brogs - 12.01.08

Rip murderdoll22
24-05-2009 23:16

Nothing we did not already knew.
~F~ of The Legion

most misspelled. name. ever
The ultimate cooked tuna collector.
24-05-2009 23:18

Nicely written, shame about the content. Its complete gumpf, gibberrish of the highest order. Theres very little consistency in the Modding as it stands, so why not have a debate amongst yourselves, find out exactly where lines are to be drawn and then inform us, so we have at least a chance of staying within the rules?

If the Mods stopped trying so danged hard to look perfect and actually made a half decent attempt at a universal and comprehensive set of rules, that weren't so heavily reliant on "Mods discretion" I for one would be happier.

At present, it doesn't really matter what the Mods say or do, regardless of the rules as they have that fantastic get out clause.
24-05-2009 23:29

Now, if any of it were true, we could make some progress.
24-05-2009 23:32

To respond to Preff:

Consistency of course is going to be difficult in any undertaking. That's what I say in the initial post after all. There is this assumption though that no communication happens within the mod team at all. That one mod will do whatever and then when the next mod pops in then the rules change. That's not how it goes at all. We will discuss "gray" areas and will come up with a consensus on how to handle the issue. We're always looking for better ways to do things so we will reexamine any issue as needed and see if there is a better way to handle it.

Now for the last part on what you said Preff, I think you don't quite realise our position. We have multiple groups within the game all seeing various takes on any given situation. We're not all going to see eye to eye. But what we can all do is see if we can get a universal conception of what we ought to do when any given situation happens. I understand if you're frustrated that your particular viewpoint isn't being represented but at please understand how we do have to cater to the majority of the game.
Think with Dispassion.
Speak with Equanimity.
Act in Calm.
24-05-2009 23:38

Nice to see you communicating to the players Spindoc. As that is the biggest frustration seen in the community of syrnia.

Yet as Preff pointed out it doesnt really actually say much except the following. "We do our best and are attempting to correct mistakes and make moderation more consistent".

Now the cynic in Me wonders if this is just an attempt to make yourselves feel better for so long leaving everyone in the dark. And a stalling tactic. Will things really change?

Now with regards to other things, will there be a statement on any potential updates and work of the focus team for example? Another lack of communication causing issue in syrnia.
24-05-2009 23:42

I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but lets be honest here, the way things stand, a phrase thats common to many can be outlawed with no warning, no attempt to communicate said change and no slack given to an unfortunate player who then uses said phrase. Happened to me recently, and I kicked off alarmingly about it in tickets too. Where are we the players informed of these changes? Where are we the players supposed to look if it is indeed our responsibility like the rules state? Its certainly not in the rules themselves.

Thats just an example, my problem is this, if what you're saying is you are "striving for consistency" you guys need to strive harder. We the players have a vague idea of what the rules are and try to keep within them (excluding the deliberate rule-breakers obviously, no rule book will dissuade them) but the rules either change or a mod uses their discretion and we're all in the dark again, its frustrating to say the least.

And of course, theres the other leading issue.. why are the Mods taking so much upon themselves? Why are the Mods having to release a Mission statement? Where is the Mission statement of the ONE person who actually matters..M2H himself?
24-05-2009 23:42

Good effort mods. But this whole thread doesn't really say anything new... all it says is that you're "trying", and that's basically stating the obvious.

but yea. Better then saying nothing.
24-05-2009 23:42

i agree with preff here. there is far too much "mod's discression" here. what that leads to is exactly what we all see as the players of syrnia. when you mods do not even see eye to eye on how the punishment goes and what is and is not punishable, it leads to this major inconsistancy. this inconsistance is the issue. its not really a matter of over or under modding.

a vague example is: a player commits a breakage of a chat rule, the mod that is there and on duty at the time sees it... yet does nothing or only issues a pointless warning.

a while passes and a completely different player creates a situation much like the first situation mentioned. the mod that sees it this time is different and sees the action punishable by a mute and or jail.

you may and may not say that this "canny" or "doesnt" happen, yet i think almost ANY given player that you could pull aside and ask would tell you that they have witnessed this very thing. i know for a fact that i have seen it happen more than once. i have even brought it to the attention of the mod staff just recently as a matter of fact.

i was basicly told that since the problem did not occur directly with me, there was nothing i could do about it, and the situation would be dropped and ignored unless the player(s) that were involved came to the mods and not myself.

in conclusion to how i feel, i would be in hopes for a accurate and consistant set of rules that applied to EVERYONE, fairly and justly. i am all for rules to contain and eliminate the rule breakers. i have a child of my own that plays syrnia and i disable world chat as to not have him included in it because of the occasional mishaps and the modding in case he had a mishap.
24-05-2009 23:54

M2H gave up on us players and gave the game to the mods to run.
When nobody has your back, you gotta move your back.

Ignorance is the Mother of Superstition, and Superstition is the mother of Religion."
24-05-2009 23:54

Where's Novus to say "Banana", and close this thread when you need him?
25-05-2009 00:01

My suggestions...

This is such a diverse game, everyone comes from different backgrounds and while that is great, it is also a problem when it comes to "discretion" on rules and what a moderator might deem appropriate or not appropriate.

As I pointed out with the discussion in world chat, it is hard to know what is and isn't muteable/warnable without a set list or a set terms (even if for the moderators to have privately) because of the cultural differences. About a year ago there was a word floating around that some would get muted for, and others would not. It depended upon the moderator who was on and watching chat at the time. Using the old ticket system a ticket was filed (now and days a report), and was sent back with the note "I do not find this word to be offensive in my culture", when others had been warned/muted for it already.

That is just an example of what I think is an error that should be corrected. Inconsistancy is also key in making errors. The fact that a word pertaining to a persons behind was once warnable/mutable and is now not is an error. If we are to keep a set rule, and are to use our own common sense the rules should not fluctuate based upon the staff and what works towards pleasing the general community because that causes confusion. This confusion leads people to saying "well such and such said it, didn't get in trouble, and has over used the word now when I use it, it's a problem?", which leads to what? People saying mods are playing favorites.
"Love that is not madness is not love." - Pedro Calderon de la Barca

[2]22:07 brogs[F-E-S]: you couldn't beat tetris on moron setting..
25-05-2009 00:13

I can't say that I blame any mod cynicism from any player at this point. All I can say is that today marks the first step of how we're going to talk about how things within the game are going. What we are establishing here is a foundation for future discussions within the game. Thank you everyone for your feedback and my next post will discuss the focus groups.
Think with Dispassion.
Speak with Equanimity.
Act in Calm.
25-05-2009 00:37

I have a feeling that I'm not the only person who will read this and think it sounds kind of like "we're from the government and we're here to help".
25-05-2009 00:43

I think the best way the mods can change is for them to rewrite some of the rules as they are too vague in some areas and the rules can be changed by the mods without telling the players. Also mods need to be slightly more lenient on players as well, as they are handing out some very pointless mutes and punishments. Mods also are very stubborn in my opinion and wont go back and undo a mistake this aura of arrgonace of the mods needs to change. You are not infallible and need to recongise you sometimes make mistakes.

When the rules are changed, players should be able to see what rules were changed instead of something like this post here. Forum -> Announcements -> Rules Update/changes which told us the rules were changed but gave us no clue on what was changed by the mods. It is a long enough document and expecting people to read through it all is kind of asking a lot of them in fairness. they should also take into account the opinions of the players a bit as well. But my biggest problem is the lack of transparancy by the mods, you dont show know when the rules are changed and how they were changed. Ticket is a particular big issue as well. When your sending tickets it feels impersonal and like your talking to machine instead of a person. I get this feeling because I dont know if I am talking to the same mod over a ticket with a few replies in it. This can be easily solved by giving a number to the mod makes it a bit clearer you are talking to and that it's the same person.

As for the topic it's a nice post saying lovely things in theort but I wont hold my breath until I see actual change in the behaviours of the mods
Ultima Lightbringer
25-05-2009 01:07

I like that the moderators are making a post to the players, regardless of what is even being said. Communication is a good step forward. I hope that everything goes smoothly.
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You are attacking a Elder Eagle (18) at Rose mines.
There are 29 people fighting here.
25-05-2009 07:21

i will put forth a suggestion. perhaps you all should have each mod write a little about them selfs and what job they have in syrnia. also add to this why they do it. many people think mods only are mods so they can punish others, but i doubt this is the case. if people had a grasp of why mods do what they do maybe they cut them some slack. also i will point out mods don't need to give their in game names for this just have spindoc or another mod post for them.

another suggestion is maybe make a mod appreciation day? why not have a day to celebrate mods and their thankless job in this game? sure you all can spice it up with some contests or whatever you all want.

and another suggestion is get rid of those blanket (mod) moderator move it along, or this subject is no longer suitable for chat. i know each mod is quite able to type out what the problem they see in chat so just say it. people will either listen or not to direct orders, then if they chose to not then mute them.

yet another suggestion. make it so you can whisper back a mod who whispers you. if this takes M2H adding a reply feature to the game, then so be it, i am sure that wont be hard to do. this would cut down on tickets sent in then waiting hours for a simple reply to them.

from my point of view this game has been running for far to long with the attitude of it is the mods vrs the players. i hope that today is the first step in many to make this a thing of the past.

thanks spindoc and all the mods who helped in this first step.

p.s i will be out of town for a week so i hope i don't miss to much,and i look forwards to more posts when i return.
25-05-2009 10:09

I hope it's just one mod responsible for the problems caused.
25-05-2009 10:27

Consistency will never be achieved so long as there are still rules that basically say,
You can and will be punished for any rule not stated here that we might make up without informing you.

"Note that these rules are subject to change at any time and without warning."

"We reserve the right to add/edit the rules as and when we see fit. These changes will be announced."

Lol, even the rules contradict themselves within the first 7 lines...And you expect consistency based on those rules?

Remove all the "loopholes" from the rules that the mods have created in order for them to always be in the right, and perhaps you might not have so many people upset about the modding.
"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds."
25-05-2009 14:07

I for one am glad that the game administration is beginning to listen to the players. Everyone knows, if we didn't like/love this game, then we wouldn't be here.

Administrators please consider the following:

-let the players know a little about what updates are comming, give us a teaser
-keep an open dialogue with the players
-I can see where the rules themselves can make some people antsy
-seeing M2H playing and responding to players would greatly boost morale

Players consider the following:

-the administrators are human, and do make mistakes
-if you take the role of antagonist then you reap what you sew
-everything that is being planned does not need to be shared before it is implemented
25-05-2009 17:22

<--- Thinks preff has said exactly what needed to be said.
25-05-2009 18:04

Preff for president
Poj struck and dealt 31 damage to the Roodarus. 522/553
2009-03-14 22:19:15 Poj(89) attacked Kyouji, and did 30 damage. Kyouji had 0 HP left.
2009-04-17 19:25:06 Poj(91) attacked Saturna, and did 24 damage. Saturna had 0 HP left.
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